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Tenants in the house we are buying

24 replies

BoBoo · 28/10/2010 16:31

The house we are buying is currently let and has tenants in. When were were viewing we were told that they were due to be out in November. After our offer was accepted we were then told that their lease was until January, but we they were going to tell them the house was sold and try and get them out sooner.

We have to be out of our rental on 15 December - this has already been pushed back a month and can't be moved back any further as landlady is moving back into the house. Solicitor seems to think we can should be ready to exchange in 2-3 weeks, so the only sticking point now is the fact that there are people in our house. What can I do??

OP posts:
Jackstini · 28/10/2010 16:47

Do you know if the vendor/landlord has given his tenants notice yet?
Usually if they are on a standard AST he will have to give them 2 months so hopefully he did is pretty soon after you offered, when was your offer accepted?

yomellamoHelly · 28/10/2010 18:54

We had students in our house (completed in the summer).
When we viewed it (Easter time) they said they were leaving end of June. Everything was set in place for end of June completion / moving date.
LL then turned round and said oh no they're staying until end July. Debate went on for three weeks and we got nowhere.
In the end I knocked on the door of this house and spoke to the students and then knocked on door of LL and spoke to her.
Basically LL was being greedy as she wasn't living there she was trying to maximise her income from the house before selling it. Everyone in the chain spoke to her EA and solicitor once I'd passed on what was happening and she gave in to pressure (she was jeopardising the chain) and we completed mid-July. Tenants had moved out end June as they'd always said they would.
Were then due to complete on the Wednesday and move on the Friday. On day of completion LL tried it on for the month's rent she'd lost out on by getting them to move out early.
Anyway! ... I'd say speak to the tenants and find out their side. There's still time to sort this out I think.

BoBoo · 28/10/2010 18:58

Eeek. Our offer was only accepted last Wednesday, but everything's speeding through. I believe the tenants have been told the house has sold, and they were packing when we went for our second viewing, which looks promising. I guess it all comes down to whether they can find somewhere else to live quite quickly.

I'm just dreading the prospect of not being able to get in on time, then having to find a short-term let, storage and double some of our costs all for the sake of a few weeks.

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Blu · 28/10/2010 19:36

Well, the sooner you can exchange contracts, citing a completion date that suits you and your own rental position the better, ebcause then the vendors will be under contract to give you full vacant possession and paying off the tennants will be their problem.
But presumably you are still waiting for survey, searches, mortgage offer and the like? A lot can happen.....I have never yet managed to exchange and complete within 12 weeks of offer. But many people do.

BoBoo · 28/10/2010 19:51

The survey was done today (not sure if it's thrown anything up yet, but house looks in great condition) and most of the underwriting is done. I've been told we should be ready to exchange in 2-3 weeks, but even if that's doubled then it still gives us time.

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usernamechanged345 · 28/10/2010 19:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blu · 28/10/2010 21:17

Actually, thinking about it, the vendor's solicitor probably wouldn't allow them to exchchange unless the house was already vacant or the tennants were legally obliged to be out by completion. It would be too risky from the vendor's pov.

BoBoo · 28/10/2010 21:27

I think I'll have a chat with the estate agents and my solicitors tomorrow and see where that leaves us. Why can't it ever be easy?

OP posts:
Jackstini · 28/10/2010 22:15

Good idea for the chat with EA/sols to check when notice given but otherwise don't worry too much about the timing.
I signed today for a house where the offer was accepted 20 Sept and it will complete by next Friday latest so it can be done quickly.

TheNextMrsDracula · 28/10/2010 23:44

Our solicitor would not let us exchange on the place we were buying until the tenants had actually gone - too risky that they would refuse to go etc. It caused us a 1 month delay, but fortunately the whole chain was able to wait.

Definitely think about approaching the tenants to see if they can move out sooner - even if you had to pay them a small "sweetener" to compensate them for the inconvenience it might be cheaper than paying for storage atc.

usernamechanged345 · 29/10/2010 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FanjolinaJolie · 29/10/2010 08:51

You cannot exchange on a residential mortage while a tenancy is still in place. The lender won't allow it.

Ask to see a copy of the notice the tenants have been given, in fact I'd not proceed at all until I'd seen this document.

FanjolinaJolie · 29/10/2010 08:54

Under no circumstances should you exchange contracts until there is vacant possession.

Worst case senario is being unable to complete because tenants are still in the property.

Make sure your solicitor is on the case.

LIZS · 29/10/2010 09:00

It needs to be sold with "vacant possession" . At the moment they are sitting tenants and you(or rather your lender) need formal reassurance that this will not be the case on completion. No solicitor should exchange until this is resolved. Is there any option to roll your tenancy on for a month (most AS leases can accommodate this after the initial 6 month period)

Appletrees · 29/10/2010 09:08

Agree with everyone. Tenants can simply refuse to leave. It won't matter how many documents are signed or notice have been given. They can simply not go and it would take at least six to eight weeks to get a court order and bailiff. During which time they will be.cross and in your house. Do not think it won't happen. It happened to me with "nice" educated professional well paid family tenants. They just didn't leave. Be very careful and suspicious.

Colourful · 29/10/2010 09:18

I agree that the landlord is trying to maximise the rental income before the property is sold - hedging his/her bets is a polite way of putting it! I also agree that you should speak to the tenants to see what their plans are.

I would exchange so that you have some sort of security. Get a completion date agreed and then it is up to the vendor to deal with the tenants because they have to sell with vacant possession. I would also get some sort of undertaking through his/her solicitor that the prpoerty will be vacant on time. You will be entitled to withhold the completiion monies until the tenants are out and if completion doesn't happen on the day specified you will get some (albeit not huge) financial compensation (check your contract).

Finally, book a good cleaning compnay for the day you move in....

BoBoo · 29/10/2010 09:32

Oh god. I'm going to get onto the estate agents now. There's no chance of extending our lease - we've already done so by a month and landlady and family are moving back from South Africa. Aaaaargh.

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mousymouse · 29/10/2010 10:01

just a thought, the letting agreement does not change automatically, just because the owner of the property changes. in theory you could end up as landlord. so the current landlord needs to give notice. it might be wise to check if it is a shorthold tenancy or not.

Appletrees · 29/10/2010 10:04

If he gives a section 21 now I think the bailiff could be in by Dec 15 if the tenants get funny

BoBoo · 29/10/2010 12:13

I don't think their lease is up, so I don't think Section 21 applies. Spoken to EA and apparently they only have verbal agreement that they can stay until January and vendor is in discussion with tenants. Should know more tomorrow or Monday. So frustrating.

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DamselInDisgrace · 29/10/2010 12:35

Warning: digression perhaps rant.

I feel really bad for the poor bloody tenants (obviously this is in no way the OP's fault). Private renting sucks. You get settled somewhere, the landlord decides to sell, and you have to find somewhere else to live. Then it happens again. No security whatsoever.

And so many LLs are unrealistic and greedy. In the past year, we've moved 3 times. The first time our landlord decided to have the property valued but 'wasn't going to sell' Hmm. Unsurprisingly they quickly told us they were putting the house on the market (at a ludicrously high asking price). We were on a rolling lease, so we told them to give us one month's notice and we'd leave. We found a place and arranged to move out. Then the LL started going on about our contract having 2 months notice (it didn't, as the rent period was monthly) and wanted the extra rent. After some wrangling we 'won' but she obviously instructed her letting agent to try to get it back from the deposit, so she was a complete arsehole and we had to threaten legal action to get it back (having looked after the house extremely well, especially considering how poorly the LL had been maintaining it). Basically the LLs were annoyed that we wearing just going to stay, pay them rent, put up with viewings, and then move out the day before the new owners took possession. They were greedy (and had clearly been foolish with money) and didn't realise that by moving out we were helping them. We could just have refused to move until the forcibly evicted us, which would prevent them selling. They just couldn't accept that there would be any financial consequences to choosing to sell. (incidentally they haven't been able to sell and after 6 months started trying to rent it out again).

Second LL was moving out of the house and renting it out following a split with her partner. She seemed to have something of a property empire in the local area too. Shortly after moving in we started getting bailiff letters/visits because they owed loads of money: unpaid council tax to 3 different councils, utilities on multiple properties, thousands of pounds of unpaid corporation tax. This was not fun at all. It was also almost impossible to set up our own utilities because of this. We moved out the day our 6 month lease was up.

We picked up the keys to the current place and opened the door to find that the LL had served us with a 'sword of damocles' section 21. We were not happy, as we'd explicitly said we wanted to rent long term (and we don't wish to pay the extortionate agents fees to sign a new contract annually). We spoke to her and she said that she's had problems with tenants in the past so was advised to do this as standard. She says we can negotiate a rolling thing in writing at the of the fixed term, but we'll see how well this pans out.

Private sector renting truly sucks.

Rant over.

BoBoo · 29/10/2010 12:41

I also have sympathies for the tenants but I need to consider my own family and we need somewhere to live.

We're renting at the moment and we were expecting to stay on where we are. We've only been in 18 months, painted the whole house when we moved in, looked after the garden, put new carpet in the hall/stairs/landing. We only found out we had to move on because I emailed a few months ago to let then know we'd like to stay. They visited in the Summer and didn't say anything about their intentions to move back even though they obviously knew.

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DamselInDisgrace · 29/10/2010 12:49

Oh yes, boohoo. You definitely shouldn't feel bad in this. It's a terrible situation and the LL's actions are affecting you and your family. I hope it does work out for you. You can look forward to (hopefully) never having to rent again. Hurrah.

Appletrees · 29/10/2010 13:40

You can do a section 21 at any time. We issued ours when giving notice for the second time but we could have done it earlier.you could also do section 8.not you, of course, the landlord. This means that as soon as they don't leave you can apply for a court order instead of having to wait to issue a housing act notice. And a court might not evicted beforechristmas. You are relying on the tenants to be trustworthy.

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