Contract with my builder...

[anonymousbird]

... about to enter into a fairly big build/renovation project. Builder submitting final detailed spec etc this week. Unless something very strange has happened since our last conversation with them, I am certain that we will appoint them to do the job. They are very good at the building work and most that goes with it, though, we recognise that their finishing off may not be so good so we either want them held to a time/price even if they need to redo in the event of it being less than perfect, or give us the option to ask say, an independent decorator or carpenter to do certain aspects of the job if we don't have complete confidence in one or two of their workmen when it comes to the finishing touches.

They have not mentioned a formal contract yet - do builders normally offer one up, or simply keep quiet unless the client mentions wanting one?

I want one for sure, for reasons mentioned, and have found the JCT models on the internet. Not bought it yet though, so not read it, but it certainly sounds like it will be suitable.

Any tips or input on the helpfulness of a contract up front before the first brick is laid, and if so, whether JCT is the best one would be very gratefully received.

Thanks

They will very rarely offer a contract on what they consider "minor" works (appreciate it seems far from minor to you). If you can draw up the contract yourself then well and good (but bear in mind that it has to be seen as fair to all parties) but you may need to get the contract drawn up and, possibly, administered by a third party such as a surveyor which, depending on the works involved, could cost several thousand pounds.

It is definitely very, very helpful to have a contract up front but cannot, of course, guarantee against the contractor going broke and simply not being able to finish the work. However, if the contract sets out clear staged payments you never should find yourself in a position where you have paid out more than the work that has been done, iyswim, and it will include a retention clause which means that the work has to be finished to a suitable standard and the builder has to return for any snagging (which sounds as if it will be a problem with this one - personally, I wouldn't choose one who couldn't manage the finishing touches ).

Thanks la la.

I know what you mean about why choose someone who can't do the finishing touches... but we know a fabulous carpenter and another wonderful decorator who I would probably use whichever building firm we picked, to be honest. It's almost a case of get the building done, buy a builder who specialises in old buildings, and once the builders are out, move in our own people to finish off. Snagging generally won't be a problem, I am sure of it, it's just that I don't believe their decorator will do as good a job as the one we have used before. Decoration is minor in the grand scheme of what we are doing.

The reason I thought I would go for the JCT is that it is an industry standard, so hopefully is already fair to both parties and includes all the stuff about staged payments, retention etc.... it's all already drafted out. I just want a structure and the option to use alternatives for certain aspects if they don't seem up to the job.

Yes, JCT is industry standard (and almost undoubtedly what a surveyor or some such would use) but I believe it still takes a certain amount of knowledge to fill it out properly and to make educated calls about length of time etc needed for works. Anyway, better to have something rather than nothing at all and good luck with the build.

i agree that getting a contract is good.

but i think you should make it formal that you will use your own carpenter and decorator and take that out of the spec.

Thank you both.
I have some contract experience, and DH works with contracts too so I am hoping that the spec from the builder (which is going to have quite a lot of detail on time/cost for individual aspects of the build) plus our general knowledge (I am a details freak!) will take us a long way down the track... but thanks for the tips. Won't underestimate that we need to give it a lot of attention if we go down that route. Much appreciated.

I may well be up front about certain aspects being possibly moved elsewhere - agree warthog that this is a good idea. Don't want to be anything other than open with the builder, and don't want nasty surprises either way later on...

i think it causes bad feeling if you tell the builder you think his work in certain areas is crap. you can just say that you've decided to take these areas out of the spec because you've got pre-existing relationships with other people.

but if you start haggling about the work and getting it redone you'll put backs up.

I would definitely get a contract, as it should protect you BOTH. I would also steer clear of a contractor who will NOT sign a contract.

JCT contracts are good and fair. I think there is a home owners contract which should work in your situation; the Minor Works will require a Contract Administrator, which really needs to be an Architect/Engineer/QS (ie, not you).

Home Owners contract is very straight forward to fill out. Given the big tick by the clear english group, or whatever they are called....

here

warthog I won't tell them their decorating etc is crap!! I just want certain options kept open - price, quality, etc are all considerations.

I will insist that anything not up to scratch (hopefully not very much of course) is redone. I accept this might get someone's back up, but if it is below par, eg. plastering finish isn't smooth, skirtings aren't on straight etc etc. those types of things need to be redone if not done right first time!

orangina that is the type of contract, brilliant. Think I will order it, then I have time to read and digest and make sure it covers all bases...

Here goes...

we are just at the stage of thinking about an extension to our home - it is terrifying as we dont know where to start!! thanks Orangina for posting that contract - i have saved it to my favourites!

We have a building company and my DP has a contract for every job except minor works. He has a standard contract that is tweeked for every job according to the spec.

Basically it's pretty much as Lala says - he likes to work in stages, so the client can see how work is going and pay after each section is complete (that's a very basic way of putting it but it gives you an idea)

I do hope your builder has his own contract though. I say this because in this day and age of legal wranglings it's odd that builders would take on work with no contract. Have you checked he is insured too? Please do.
Also check what you want him to be responsible for. Are you getting in the plumbers/electricians or is he? Who is their contract with - are they registered to industry standard and can they issue you the relevant certificates?
HTH and good luck

I think you can also attach whatever other documents you want to your home owners document (or refer to them within the contract itself), so that they too become part of the contract itself. For example, drawings, schedules, scope of works, costings, agreed rates for additional work, programme, etc.

If you attach the documents to the contract (as opposed to referring to them within the contract), then I would advise that both parties initial each page that is attached so that there are no misunderstandings later on as to what formed part of the contract.

Also, with refurbishment/extension work, it is always useful to allow 5-10% of your total (ex VAT) contract value as contingency, as there are bound to be various issues that arise on site that no-one could have reasonably anticipated. Then you aren't tearing your hair out and wondering how you are ever going to be able to afford to eat etc again....

Agree w jeanjeannie re: builder's insurance, and I would also check that their insurance is compatible with your own building insurance (you can normally call your buildings insurance brokers and run through what the builder has...). If not, you might want to take out a dedicated policy to cover the building while the works are taking place, which might be in your name, his name or joint names. Insurance is REALLY important, as it could be vital without any negligence from the builder at all (eg fire/flood.... who is responsible?).

Good luck!

Jean, thanks so much for that perspective and YES! I am onto the insurance thing - I spoke with my own broker the other day who gave great advice on ensuring nothing falls through the gaps... I may indeed need a special policy orangina as it turns out as we live in a bit of a wierd property and we are going to scrutinise the builder's policy to make sure nothing is left uncovered any which way.

Appreciate the input. It is all very helpful and given me lots to think about this week!