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Head spinning - Come and help me make sense of it all!

21 replies

angel1976 · 09/10/2010 21:33

Ok, so we have heard it all - market now going down etc etc. So we have had our two-bedroom house on the market now for like 8 weeks, 3 viewings and no offer. We bought in 2006 and it's priced very reasonably, we are hardly making any money out of it. It was initially priced higher (bright idea of the estate agent! But realistically, we knew even when we bought that it was going to be difficult to get over the stamp duty mark) but we dropped to a more realistic price very quickly when we realised which way the market was going. We are in SE London btw.

Looking to buy in another part of SE London, mainly because we now have 2 DSs and primarily we are looking at primary schools and a shorter commute for DH and more bedrooms. We have been viewing houses but nothing special so far. Today we saw a house that we had initially discounted because of the price. It was on for £625k Hmm. The agents called us (though they knew our budget was £500k) and said the sale fell through on the week it was due to exchange. The vendors are packed up and ready to go. We saw the house today and it's lovely - ticks all the boxes, near train station, near a lovely park, a 20-second walk to an excellent primary school, which is notoriously hard to get into, the catchment is literally 2 roads), lovely period features, lovely garden. Can see a few issues with the house - namely it's only got 3 double bedrooms. The loft room has not been converted properly so it's not a 4th bedroom, up a very steep flights of stairs. Too small for an ensuite. But we don't need the 4th bedroom, just that it would have been nice... And there's only 1 bathroom in the whole house, and it's on the first floor... Could be an issue with two little boys!

Agent won't say how much the accepted offer that fell through was but it was in £500k+ but market has changed since. When he first called me about the property, he tried to make sure we could 'stretch' our budget before offering us a viewing and I told him I am not discussing money till we see the place! And today, he told me basically to put in an offer for what I think it is worth. There's been no offers since the sale fell through a few weeks ago.

DH and I were talking about it and financially we could rent our house out (it's going on with a different agent next week as I think our current agent is s**t but that's another story altogether!) and get a loan from my parents equal to the equity we would have gotten from it. In that sense, we could be cash buyer (to make us attractive to the vendor as they are obviously desperate to move!) and make an offer of just under £500k. However, we did a bit more research tonight and the most expensive house ever sold on the road in the last year for £599,995. Another one sold in the same period for £485k and the rest that sold in the same time was in the low £400k! Houses on other nearby roads (it's a conservation area) have gone for just under £600k but that's rare. It looks like it's hard to break the £500k barrier there.

The big thing for us is obviously the school. We have been looking at private schools for the boys but of course the idea is if we pay out more for a house with an excellent school nearby, we save on that in the long term. My head is spinning, I don't even know what to think anymore? We saw another house nearby that was very similar (but properly converted loft) with a slightly smaller garden that was on the market for £489,950 but the price has been dropped to £475K since. But the boys will be going to another primary school, which is not as good as this particular one. And I think the vendor will accept an offer of around £450k for this property.

Is £499,995 a good/bad offer for this house? The vendor bought it in 2002 for £316k. I think I am slowly going mad... Thanks for all your opinions.

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/10/2010 21:37

Put the offer in, see what happens. Or does this incur extra costs? (Scot here, have never bought under the English system)

angel1976 · 09/10/2010 21:43

No, no costs incurred but my head is spinning cos initially, we thought it would be ridiculous if they accepted an offer of under £500k but after doing more research, it looks like what we would have offered would have been really good considering the current market. I just don't know anymore, can a property be overpriced by that much in the first instance??? BTW, it was reduced to £599,995 yesterday.

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OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/10/2010 21:47

IMVHO, most properties have been stupidly over-priced for a long time and a serious crash/long term dwindling has to happen. When you're looking at paying over half a million pounds for what sounds like a fairly unexceptional house, and the average salary is £25K, don't you get huge flashing lights in your head? (That could just be me. Grin)

So, as it costs you nothing, make your offer. What's the worst that could happen - they say no?

Northernlurker · 09/10/2010 21:50

What about secondary schools? Are they any good?

angel1976 · 09/10/2010 21:58

OldLady It's a beautiful house, no doubt about it. And DH and I both said we can see ourselves living in it but we bought close to the height of the market in 2006 and really wary about over-paying for the next one.

NL No idea bout secondary schools! Not worrying that much in the future as we will probably move again then or we reckon that at least at that age, the boys can travel if need be...

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angel1976 · 09/10/2010 21:59

Thanks for your opinions so far! Helpful to get some clarity...

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OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/10/2010 22:10

The vendor bought, 8 years ago, for £316K, you say. You're offering (damn near) £500K, an increase of £184K by my scribbled reckoning, or about £23K per year; damn near an average wage earned for living in a house.

Thay'd have a bloody cheek to turn you down, in this economic climate.

IMVHO, of course. Grin

Northernlurker · 09/10/2010 22:18

Well I think it's daft to spend that much on the basis of primary alone - the time goes very, very quickly and you will be paying a lot in stamp duty for this house - maybe just check there are some options within reasonable distance.

lalalonglegs · 09/10/2010 22:30

Well, it would be daft to spend that much on a primary on its own but they want to move anyway and this place happens to have a great school very nearby.

Offer #500k and be prepared to walk away if they try to push you up. If the agent starts making that face Hmm, point out that you know what prices other houses on the road have made and that's all you are willing to pay, end of. The vendors don't have to accept your offer but they'd be wise to listen to your reasoning.

Good luck.

jayne10b · 09/10/2010 22:36

I once read a little nugget of advice that I think has a strong grain of truth in it no matter whether it's a buyers market, sellers market or somewhere in between.

If a house is a bargain then there should be more than one person vying for it. Whilst the house you describe might be lovely, if noone else is sniffing around that implies the price is not hugely tempting.

Given the proximity to a great school, I would expect a nice house to be attracting more interest than you describe as school places are hugely competitive in SE London.

Try the lower offer and see what happens.

angel1976 · 09/10/2010 23:22

OldLady Thanks for the reality check! It seems to me like anyone who bought pre-2000 have made a mint on their houses... while others like us have paid the price for it.

NL We have been looking for a while (as in research etc) and good primary schools are damn hard to come by where we are. We won't move out of SE London as family is in Kent. Have considered moving to Kent for the school issues but neither DH and I are keen to leave London (yet). We actually really like this part of London. The other option is private schooling, which we have been looking into as well. But I don't really buy the whole idea of private schooling TBH. Not if it meant we have to make some real sacrifices in order to do so.

lala I think £500k is a very good offer as well. I said to my DH that no matter how you look at it, they have made a huge amount of money on the house and at the end of the day, it's how greedy they are or want to be.

jayne I thin they have had quite a few viewings but in today's world, I think it would be a very foolish person who would walk in there having done no research to pay close to asking and I wonder if that was the reason why the sale fell through in the first place...The agent was very elusive on that subject strangely enough!

We are going to sleep on it and will let you all know how it ends! :) Thanks for all your thoughts...

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Siasl · 09/10/2010 23:51

316k to 500k is a 58% increase. Looks like average detached (assumption) house price in SE London in mid 2002 was £400k and now its £650, which is 62%. See link below

www.home.co.uk/guides/house_prices_report.htm?county=londonse&all=1

Note you can cut this by postcode or area aswell to drill deeper if you want. Also check Land Registry for average house prices in each area (come in excel format).

Basically only pay what you can afford and if they don't like it just walk away.

angel1976 · 09/10/2010 23:59

Thanks Siasl. DH and I have done our research very thoroughly tonight and had a chat about it. We have decided that:

  1. We do not need to buy right now as it will be 2 more years before DS1 goes into reception.
  1. The top price paid for the house on that road was a semi-D 5-bedder and this is a 3 bedder and for a 3 bedder, the most anyone has paid for is £485k.

So all that considering in mind, we think we will go in on Monday and make an offer in the region of £475/485k and £500k will stay our top budget and walk away if the vendor turns us down. Wish us luck!

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mamatomany · 10/10/2010 00:29

That sounds very sensible angel1976, just one thing though are you prepared to be landlords and rent your house out long term, it might be a good couple of years before you see your equity from that house again.
I was an estate agent in 1994 (with no clue what was going on for the record just flogging houses) but we had a lot of lovely properties on for two or more years.
I wish I had bought them all Grin

mumzy · 10/10/2010 08:35

we're buying as well and my rule of thumb now is to offer at least 5% below what a similar house sold for at its height in 2007. What we've found this year are vendors pricing their houses at peak 2007 houses or beyond and expecting to get very near the asking price. In reality these houses even the very desirable ones have sat on the market for months/years as no one is now going to pay 2007 prices anymore re: predictions of big downturn in house prices as cuts bite. The ones which are very realistically priced have sold within days. Moral of story check how much similar houses in your area have sold for on nethouse prices in the past year and price accordingly, do not let ea tell you its worth ££££ so they get the instruction, check how much houses similar to the one you want to buy have sold for in 2007 and offer between 5-20% less depending on how overvalued it is .

angel1976 · 10/10/2010 13:38

mumzy Great advice! Have checked house prices for similar terraced houses on the same street sold in 2007 and one sold for £465k and one for £495k so looks like seller has completely overpriced the property (though this could be EA's fault!). The other issue is that houses on that street just don't come up that often as I suppose once your kids get into the school, you ain't moving till they finish! There's basically 5 houses sold on that street in the last 5 years! I wonder if we should offer £475k and see what happens?

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Siasl · 10/10/2010 16:06

Vendors expectations aren't something you can change so don't worry about them!

Four months ago we saw a property we liked on at £1,700k. We couldn't see how it could possibly be there ... nothing had traded on that street above £1400k even at top of 2007.

We bid £1,200k, 30% off their asking price but 15% off the max price traded. The EA laughed at us and told us to be realistic. We said thanks but no thanks.

Three months later he comes back and has the cheek to ask if our bid at £1200k is still good. We told him we'd lost interest! It's still on the market now at £1300k.

angel1976 · 10/10/2010 18:53

Siasl Thanks for your story. Very enlightening! Did you buy another place in the end? Have spoken to my parents and they will lend us the money that we need from the equity if needed. We are going to go in and offer £475k and explain why and also that we can proceed asap as we won't need to sell our place. So we shall see, we are keeping a cool head on and will walk away if needed. At the end of the day, we are prepared to stay where we are and put the boys in private school for a while in need be but we are still two years away from that!

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CarGirl · 10/10/2010 19:08

Just wanted to point out you need to live in a catchment area when you apply for a place which is a year before they start! That still gives you a whole year though.

Also a badly converted loft can actually reduce the value of a home - def get a full structural survey to check the integrity of the roof hasn't been compromised.

angel1976 · 10/10/2010 19:50

Thanks CarGirl! DH's uncle is a surveyor so we are definitely getting him to check out the place before anything happens!

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Siasl · 10/10/2010 21:14

No we didn't buy the house ... its still on market. Problem is we've started to become a bit concerned about quality of schools in the area. We'd like to very good state and private schools to choose from. The primary/prep is good enough but the choice of secondary is a bit thin.

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