Private Primary or Private Secondary for 2 kids

[Besla]

My oldest in Yr 1 currently goes to a state primary school, which we originally liked, but he's coming home telling me that he's bored, already knows the things they are teaching him, they don't pick him to answer questions. I know he's only 5 so I take it with a pinch of salt, but I know he didn't read with a teacher for a whole 6 weeks, as his reading book did not have any entries in since before Christmas. He's reading at a Level expected of someone in Yr 2 going into Yr 3, so they are not really focusing on him. My second will be turning 3 soon and will be eligible to go to into pre-primary at a local prep school. We initially thought of putting him in there just for nursery and then he will go to his brothers local primary. Having toured the prep school and seen the opportunities/ facilities we are toying with putting them both there.
But am in 2 minds whether we should put our money into primary education and hope they pass the 11+ to get into Grammar school (We are in Kent), or stick to a state primary and if they don't get into Grammar use the money to put them into an Independent Secondary. The state secondary's are not brilliant unfortunately.
Any advice will be much appreciated.

Secondary will make much more difference to their future lives than primary. I would definately save for private secondary, if you want to make most impact, unless you think they can get to a much better state grammar, than the state primary.

Agree with the above. We start school pretty young here in UK and the secondaries start younger than most countries so if needed a decent private can catch up on any lost teaching. Much harder to learn the details needed for GCSE in a large class with disruption than ABC's with support from home.

I’d say primary.
I went to an excellent state primary affiliated to an utterly dreadful state secondary. All the kids that came from my primary were noticeably ahead and the kids from the other feeder schools were middling to poor in terms of attainment. The quality of education was pretty poor. 20 years after leaving school, most of the folks from my primary have done really well despite our secondary…went on to uni and landed good jobs. The rest of my high school class from other feeders…not so much. The difference is noticeable and not down to location (my primary was also in quite a deprived area and no obvious economic differences…it just had an outstanding teaching team).
Having a solid primary education would do them more good than coming to secondary with an average/lower education and hoping they could “make up the difference”

I would always prioritise primary - it’s where children learn good habits, curiosity and a solid foundation for future learning.

If you get all of those right, you can basically teach yourself through secondary school

I would prioritise primary school especially if you are thinking of grammar schools (although a bit early at this stage to think about).
Around us the private schools get similar results to the comprehensives so you are paying £25k a year for the fancy grounds and extra curricular activities which DC may not be interested in.

Please could I offer this suggestion :

Pay for primary. Then you have 5 years where finances could change significantly and you may decide you can also afford secondary.

Yes to primary over secondary! My child has grown in confidence at the prep

I vote for private at primary and the best choice you get for secondary - be that grammar or indie or comp.

Private in primary proved very good value in my experience. The level of engagement is much more noticeable. It was worth every penny.
I'm in the early journey of private secondary with DC which is much more expensive, but as the cohort is larger it becomes a little less personal and more up to the kids to engage. So far so good, but I definitely feel early years is more crucial in developing good habits and fostering confidence etc.

Thanks everyone. My DH also thinks Primary will be better, setting solid foundations etc. So the question is how to decide? we have a few in the area, with quite similar facilities but varying costs. Any advice on what to look for on visits or what questions to ask?

Primary every time. Getting it right from the beginning is the way forward, and will stand children in good stead later on.
When you visit the schools, watch how the Head in particular interacts with the children. Ask how children are encouraged and rewarded.

definitely visit them all…get the tour…your gut will tell you more than you realise. I had not intended sending kids private but after a frankly depressing visit to our local state primary school, we visited 3 private schools nearby. One was nice enough but didn’t blow me an away. One was pretty disinterested in us and while the school looked great, the kids that took us on the tour came across as really entitled and ungrateful to be at a “prestigious” school. The third was just amazing…brilliant facilities, super engagement from the kids - seemed like a happy place to be. And, interestingly was a little cheaper than the other two. My kids love it and have thrived there.

We always thought there was more value in secondary, so that's where we saved the money for and sent our eldest at 11 (not in a grammar area). We are very happy with that school. However our youngest was like yours working ahead, not challenged, and also severely lacking in confidence (in his 'outstanding' primary children were more managed than nurtured, possibly due to large class sizes or that most of the teachers were NQTs with only 6 of the 32 staff with more than 2 years of teaching experience to guide them). We made the decision to move them for year 4-6 of primary over to prep and it will forever be my greatest regret that I didn't do it sooner. He was respected as a person, encouraged in his strengths, supported where he did have challenges to have the confidence to face them, he was introduced to a range of interests he didn't know existed, he came to the end of that school a much happier, more confident and more ambitious child than he entered, he felt secure in his abilities and that working ahead wasn't something to be mocked but applauded. He made a lovely bunch of friends too who are just the kindest, politest lads I've had the pleasure of knowing. Both are now in independant secondary and both will tell you how much they love school where very few of their friends in state would say the same (don't know if this is genuinely that school is such a different environment, or just that at their school achieving is cool whereas at the state schools their friends tell them it's very much not and you're teased for being a geek) but if I had my time again I would 100% go independant if you can find one that excites you (some that we looked around had the benefit of small classes but seemed quite antiquated in their teaching methods and resources for example) and paying the fees isn't going to have a significantly detrimental impact on family life (not talking driving an older car or cutting down on holidays, most of us do that, but struggling to pay your bills or at risk of loosing your house if fees rise 10% not 8% type level of stretch), in your case use it as a springboard for grammar, but also try to use these years to plan for plan B in case one or both children don't get into grammar.

secondary school every time
there’s nothing taught at primary you can’t teach at home - don’t let his reading level be the hill you die on - you can easily manage that home with extra reading activities at bed times and weekends

First and foremost, have you talked with the primary school about this? You don't say you have. Would that not be the first step?

Find out what sort of curriculum the private school follows. We were at one where yrs reception to 2 were much the same as a state primary but with smaller classes. But years 3-4 were not. Too much sport and not enough focus on learning

Have you considered moving out of Kent to an area with high quality comprehensive secondary schools rather than a totally selective secondary system?

Secondary and I say this having moved my child from a state primary to a selective prep where I notice lots of differences. if I hadn’t made the move I’d have been tutoring and tutoring is obviously a lot cheaper!

I think that decision is different for grammar areas. I’d be more tempted to throw everything at a primary to try and get a grammar place but I think you have to be confident as the worst scenario in your circs is you spend all your money, fail grammar and then have to go to a school you really don’t like.

Save it for secondary school and enrich from home .

My dd went to an average state primary that ignored her because she was More Able. She was totally fed up by y6 and absolutely hates and resents her primary school.

At a great state secondary she’s thriving.

Personally I'd save your money for secondary.

Talk to the school get a proper appointment and say you want a clear plan to get them to stretch him. I'd cone with your own suggestions too (ie do some of it for them so its easy to say yes)

Enrich with STEM at home.

I went to a bog standard primary. I was allowed to pick books from the "top school library" in infants.
I read the hobbit when I was 7 or 8.

I also did my own thing for maths... I remember in yr 6 the new teacher was a bit of a dick and wouldnt let my mum buy me next level up... we had i think pink books i completed the whole thing before the first half term and had zero to do so he eventually caved and let my mum buy me the next two from whsmiths and then i did those.

I'd consider waitlisting for other state primarys schools that can stretch him more if you feel they are really failing him but honestly the school you are at should do it.

Thanks everyone. We have parents evening next week so the stretching him, /more difficult work conversation is top priority. Just getting some valuable insights in preparation for if the school does nothing / if we move him. As we’ve not really considered prep before, having some advice on what we should ask/look for is really helpful.
And if preps not the route for us, advice on how me manage his time at the local state is also helpful. I just don’t want him to get into bad habits because he’s not being challenged and then whatever secondary he goes to won’t change his outlook.

Actually, I'd do both - I moved my DS from state to private prep in Year 5 (for reasons other than academic, but I was also aware that his good primary wasn't stretching him) and he has blossomed.

Think about what your kids enjoy and then check the ethos of your preferred schools - whether they prioritise sports or the arts for example - and how much they prioritise pastoral care. If you can, find an all-through school so the change from prep to secondary will be minimal, or a prep where most pupils go on to a secondary that you like...so that your kids will move up with their friends.

If it absolutely has to be either/or, then I'd save your money for secondary...the facilities and the small classes (and thus teacher time) make a huge difference to kids' experience of school. Going in the other direction, if your kids are used to the atmosphere and facilities of private and then go to a state secondary where things are very different, it could be very unsettling, especially if the things they are keen on just can't happen any more.