Why are so many boys' schools in particular going co-ed?

[TiggerSnoozer]

The obvious answer is that there isn't enough demand for the places if they don't. But it seems to me that, in and around London anyway, there are already many more girls' schools than boys... And anecdotally (and on Mumsnet) the demand for boys' places outstrips available places far more than for girls at 11+. Surely one of these 3 things must be untrue...

It probably improves their results.

Traditionally girls only charged lower fees! Seems insane but I wonder if they had fewer facilities and less space.

It’s a combination of :
improving results, looking into the future and seeing the plummeting birth rate, the rise of school fees means private schools are increasingly dependent international parents relocating to London and they prefer mixed schools and full time working parents (to pay the school fees) prefer all dc at the same school.

Isn't there research that shows girls do better in single sex schools and boys do better in a mixed environment? At least that's what people believe. I know several families with their girls at girls schools and their boys at mixed schools.

It just feels like girls' schools aren't doing the same in general - and you'd think they would be if the main reasons were the ones you've mentioned?

Parents like their girls in girl’s schools and their boys in mixed schools so they can be socialised by other people’s girls.

Because introducing girls elevates their overall exam results and rankings. Or at least that’s the case of 3 schools I know of that went co-ed, they made no secret about it and were quite open they that was the reasoning.

So there is demand for more co-ed schools to send boys to? That makes some sense, but in the process of converting, the number of places for boys goes down, and it relies on filling yet more places for girls in co-ed environments that people believe are less good for girls' results? Still seems a bit illogical to me.

I don't know tbh. I just know that the conversation for a while amongst people I know is that they didn't want single sex for their boys, but they did for their girls.

I guess they hope other people will send their girls to the previously boys only schools and these girls will provide whatever it is that makes boys learn better in a mixed environment.

I would personally prefer co-ed for both - and I'm slightly surprised that people who prefer co-ed for their boys don't also think it's preferable for girls (more real world etc etc, all kids in one school) But it does seem that a lot of people with girls don't. I'm probably influenced by the schools that were in my area when I grew up though - the all girls' school was not a very nice environment by all accounts, whereas the co-eds and all boys were fine.

In the city where I live, there was a boys school and a girls school, and lots of co-ed.
Then the boys school closed. The girls has a waiting list.
As a result, all the co-ed have slightly more boys than girls. Some schools have many more boys than girls.
In one school it was so imbalanced that they made one class boys only, so that the other classes could have reasonably even numbers. Otherwise there would have been a class with just four girls in among all the boys.

Just like men do better being married in life, but women do better single, boys do better with girls, but girls do better without boys.

I’m vehemently against single sex schools so I think it’s great. Realistically they’re going co-ed due to supply and demand. Less people going private, risk of having to be less selective to fill places so they open up to girls to keep the standard up. That’s the bottom line. There’s no way they would do it if it wasn’t futureproofing.

I guess if people can't get a place in a girls private school they would be happier with their girls in a mixed private school than a mixed state school - a better class of boys to annoy them?

Apart from everything quoted above I’d guess to give better mixing/ social skills- I went to an all girl’s’ school and we had no clue how to interact with them, in the same way I’ve met men who were definitely of the opinion women were a different species and seemed terrified.

They have seen that some state primaries are reducing their PAN or at threat of closure due to the falling birth rate, so are future proofing - if they open up to girls too, then less likelihood of them having empty classrooms.

It's interesting because parents of girls seem keen to send them to previous boys only schools, but I'm not so sure that it would be the same the other way around. Would you send your boy to Cheltenham Ladies? Or St Swithun's, when Winchester College is just down the road?

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the whole toxic masculinity thing. I think increasingly, the idea of an all-male school is seen as an unhealthy environment for boys, a potential hotbed of Andrew Tate culture etc, and there's less appetite for placing your son in what's seen as an alpha male type set-up, with more parents of boys feeling like a co-ed school might provide a healthier balance. Meanwhile, there are still plenty of people who want to keep their daughters protected from that culture at all costs, which maintains an appetite for all girls schools.

We were vehemently against single sex schools until a few incidents at my DD's primary made us rethink. Basically girls were being used to socialise and mitigate boy's poor (sexist and harassing even at the age of 10!) behaviour AND girls were held to a higher account than boys for behaviour. Once my DD chose the single sex secondary, from day 1 she commented on how much calmer the classroom environment is and how its not seen as a negative to be smart, particularly in STEM. She does do a lot of extra curricular activities in co-ed environments so has plenty of time to spend time with boys and be in 'real world' environments, so we feel she currently has the best of both environments. (And 2 of her best friends are boys)

I heard of an all girls' school going co-ed last night... Wonder how that's going down with existing parents.

We are in a town with 2 girls schools and a boys school (guildford). The boys school has recently announced it is going co-ed, we are at one of the girls schools and not one parent has expressed an interest in moving or mentioned it as a future prospect, in fact most are vehemently against going there as who wants to be the first girls at a 400 year old boys institution.

The two girls schools remain very popular, so its definitely a DD thing. Ours does co-ed outside of school for balance, and they also do stuff with boys schools, and I genuinely think its a better environment for girls to learn in.

My old convent school allowed 2 boys and girls schools to join them and has now gone co ed. In my day boys were certainly not encouraged by the nuns so can only see it as a good thing.

There are 4 all girls schools in Guildford or very nearby and the only boys-only is going co-ed. You would expect it to be the girls that were changing but as people have said, demand for all-girls looks stronger. It's noticeable in year 7 the difference in maturity between boys and girls (generalisation but broadly true) but I think as they progress co-ed has its merits for girls too, in terms of socialisation etc but stats suggest results are better for girls in a girls-only but better for boys in a co-ed.

Yes my mum was also strongly against single sex. But last year when she retired from her job (teacher at co ed state secondary school) she said that if my two sisters and I were primary school age now, she’d send us to a single sex school due to the behaviour she saw from the boys. She said the widespread harassment, often sexual in nature, was horrendous, and that from colleagues in other she schools she knew it wasn’t an issue limited to her school. And my mother is quite a harsh woman who has a tendency to think people need to get a grip and stop whining.

I think the simple answer is that there is less demand. If demand was outstripping supply and they were performing well, there would be no reason for them to close. I think demand is dropping for both single sex boys and girls. I know lots of people (often who went to single sex themselves) who are very anti single sex.

I was neutral on single sex education and went to visit an all girls school with my daughter. It was like something from the 1950s (STEM provision was dire and they were showing off their sparkly cookery suite). That school has now gone co-ed, no doubt partly because there wasn’t enough demand. I can’t comment on other single sex schools as I haven’t visited any, but I do know of girls who’ve gone to (well known) all girls schools and struggled with the pressure and perfectionist attitudes.

Yeah you've not seen the best of it im affraid! There's a reason that school went co-ed and it was likely the facilities and offering! A 1950s cooking suite would have a school closing down in no time!

I work at a girls' grammar rather than an independent school. The equivalent boys' grammar up the road (whose results we've generally beaten in the past) made its 6th form co-ed a few years back. They cream off some of our brightest students every year. We will never go even partially co-ed because we attract loads of muslim girls from a wide area, many of whose parents wouldn't consider us if we weren't a girls' school.