OK local secondary vs amazing local-ish independent

[17yearitch]

I have gone round in circles on this question so looking for some different viewpoints. We gave 2 DC. Our eldest is due to start secondary next year. Youngest will be at primary for another 3 years but will then attend same secondary as eldest. Help me choose!

1. Local state secondary.

• Good academic results (in the top 20 exam results nationally)
• Walking distance from home
• Majority of primary school friends will go there
• 1500 pupils /30+ in all classes
• Buildings are from 1960s and overdue to be rebuilt /relocated
• Facilities and classrooms are OK but looked quite basic on a recent visit. E.g. 1 full size sports pitch on site, 1 computing suite)
• Had police visits due to gang violence 2 years ago
• Standard holidays
• Some clubs at lunch/after school

1. Local-ish independent

• Excellent academic results (Top 3 nationally)
• 800 pupils /10-20 class size depending on subject
• 40 minute journey each way
• No local friends applying
• huge variety of clubs at lunchtime and after school
• Saturday sports
• Longer holidays
• Facilities are extensive e.g. 3 big computing suites, large music studio, 3 sports pitches (rugby, football and hockey) on site.

We can afford the fees for 2 so this is about making a choice which works for the family and gives DC the best opportunities for them.

DC1 is bright but lazy. Loves sports and music. Makes friends easily. Has trouble concentrating and is easily distracted in large groups. Can be impulsive.

DC2 is very bright, has a small group of friends and finds it hard to adapt to change. Loves music.

What should I be looking out for and what are the downsides of going private for eldest with youngest still at local state primary?

There’s no downsides to private secondary from state primary- very common.
Think it depends a lot on the actual schools. Are you in Scotland? Am assuming you are as struggling to think of a school in the top 3 in England that only has 800 pupils. Or you may be somewhere else?

Well obviously the independent school since you can afford it! That’s fabulous.

My dd has a 40 min walk to school -forty minutes isn’t a considerable commute.

Whether primary school friends are going is no consideration at all.

Yes we're in Scotland.

Local state secondary would be a 15min walk. DC would know at least half the year group from current primary school.

Local independent would be a 40min drive/bus journey and DC would know perhaps 2 slightly older kids who are from our area and already go there. Would make new friends quickly but is worried about losing touch with current school friend group.

DH went away to an independent school in his home country when he was 14 and then moved to the UK in his 20s. He’s still good friends with his hometown friends - they all had a 50th birthday weekend this year!

Equally, friendships can shift significantly at secondary age. A friend of mine used to work in the admin team at a local secondary school which had boys joining from lots of different primaries. She said they went to great lengths to try to put boys in the same class as friends from their school, but it was a total waste of time as within a fortnight they’d all made totally new friends!

So while moving to secondary with friends is a nice blanket for the first couple of weeks that’s literally all it is. It really shouldn’t be a factor absent very specific neurodiversity.

FWIW my DS moved from state primary to independent this year. He had one friend who also joined, and has been absolutely fine - he made new friends and quickly found his “tribe”. But he’s still keeping in touch with his primary friends.

We absolutely love the school and would make the same decision (independent over state) in a heartbeat.

DC1 not currently knowing anyone going to the independent school is not something I would worry about, but I would absolutely consider how many of their new year-mates would live near you. They'll make new friends wherever they go, but it is a downside for most or all of those new friends to be a long car ride away, especially as they move up in age. Not necessarily a deal-breaker but it's something to weigh out.

I'd somewhat ignore the exam results, TBH because there isn't a material difference there when comparing selective vs non-selective. Look at the range of students and the culture. Do you think that the academic atmosphere will fit your oldest, or will he feel like a square peg in a round hole? Or (I have to say I hate seeing parents use this word) will he potentially internalize the idea that he's lazy?

I’ve taught in state and private. I’d send my (non existent) kids to state unless it was dire.

Our main reasons for considering private are the smaller class sizes and attitude to learning of the students. DC has not been speaking up or asking for help in class when needed because of being teased by other disruptive kids.

I want DC to be in an environment where learning and achievement is fully supported, not where kids don't care about education and teachers are forced to spend a lot of time on disciplinary matters instead.

There is no guarantee they would stay friends if they went to same school. If they are really friends they will stay in touch in different schools. If you can afford it, there is no question that private is best. My only regret was that we couldn’t afford it for Primary as well.

My parents opted for private secondary, I'd enjoyed Primary, and it was a different school to all my primary friends. I was sold on the private by my parents, but was horribly bullied when I went there, and on hindsight it wasn't the right decision. It knocked my confidence greatly, and I'm not in touch with any of my peers from the private school.

Just giving another prospective for balance.

The private sounds better on paper.

However - I went to my local (decent but not amazing) state school which was a 15 min walk from where I lived, and I LOVED that all my friend were either in walking distance or a short bus ride away. When you're a teen you crave both time with friends and independence, and having friends living locally was amazing.

My DH went to a private school which was further from where he lived and he hated the fact that none of his friends lived nearby (as well as having to get up earlier / get home later due to getting transport to school - especially as teens are already so chronically sleep deprived).

We both ended up at Oxbridge, but I feel that I got the better deal.

Presumably in a high-achieving state school they will put the children in sets, so even if there are some disruptive students hopefully your DS won't be too affected by them?

Bright but lazy, has trouble concentrating and easily distracted. Sounds like ADHD.

I'm not seeing any downsides to the private option so go for that.

The they'll make fairly local friends, it's not that far - I guess you'll do more taxi-ing at weekends but that's about it.

Of course you'll get posts saying well I was sent to the local private school and didn't like it, but that can happen with any school, so you just have to make the obvious choice, and if it doesn't work out, then change it then.

Maybe, but either way, he's likely to do better at the private school.

It sounds awful..

There are two potential downsides to private secondary.

One is that the 40 minute drive/coach journey you mention is long. It may not seem it now! But on a Friday evening in winter it will seem it. It will also make it more difficult to hang out with school friends casually at weekends - without transport, forethought & organisation- & by the time you get to GCSE year this really matters.

Second is the potential disadvantage in terms of applying to the most selective universities. I would have a really hard look at the universities that the recent 6th form cohorts at the private school have gone on to. Do a sizeable cohort go on to the most competitive universities? Or are a lot of them pretty middling? If the latter, be very wary: if there is any chance that your more academic son will want to apply to a very selective university- Oxbridge, LSE etc- then he is likely to be in with a much better chance if he has done 6th form (& possibly also GCSEs) in the state sector, supplemented by private tutoring if needed. (Weirdly private schools don’t talk much about this 🤔.)

Also look hard at the support the local state school offers to 6th form pupils applying to the most competitive universities- it may actually be far better than that provided by the private school. (Certainly in my area state applicants to Oxbridge get huge support from school staff.)

It is important to realise there are real downsides to the private sector. It’s not a magic bullet. Plus, are you guaranteed to benefit from no university tuition fees in Scotland? (I’m not sure if that’s only the case if they actually attend uni in Scotland.) If you have to pay for uni tuition, you’re likely to be looking at around £150,000 - £180,000 uni costs for 2 (whether through parental support or loans). It may well be that it would be far better to save your money for the horrible day when the uni tuition fees bill arrives!

We had a choice of outstanding state or private.

We opted for outstanding state for DD and then realised our huge mistake and moved her to private for start of Y9 ( would have done it earlier had lockdown not happened)

Sent DS to outstanding state boys grammar - absolutely fine but I've since realised he would have been happier at private even if academic outcome would have been no different ( he got excellent GCSE results at state but he would have benefited from the more relaxed and well rounded private school environment I think)

Personally I wouldn't commit to having to drive Dc to secondary school.

They make new friends v quickly, whatever school, but how local would they be if the school is 40 mins away?

In these circumstances I would choose the state school which clearly does a great job (of course the private has 'better' results - it will reflect the cohort) and pay for extra curricular music and sport.

Private would definitely mean a longer day for DC, leaving home around 7.45am and getting back around 4.30pm.

In terms of academic results, the state school had 70% getting 5 or more highers last year where the private had 84% so whilst both are good, the selective intake at the private does translate to an overall learning environment which will be better for DC.

The point about university places is a tough one. I don't have any idea where leavers from the state school end up. I would guess at maybe half going to Scottish unis. Around 70% of leavers from the independent end up at a Russell Group uni including a few at Oxbridge, UCL, Imperial but also a lot at Scottish unis.