Westminster for girls from 4+

[ZanyHare]

This is first year WUS take girls. from open day to assessment, I feel they are not well prepared for girls. How do you think about it. Is it worth to be the first group of girls or still stick to the very mature girls school? Like Falkner House, Glendower, Pembridge Hall, Kensington Prep.

Personally, I would not want to be in the first cohort that includes girls. There are inevitably going to be growing pains, and I wouldn't want my child being the guinea pig.

I would go for the other schools you mention - and hope you are lucky enough to get offers!

Would you mind sharing what gave that impression at the open day? Tricky decision but I would personally go for it (depending on the nature of what you saw at the open day) - it is such a special school and they’ll be determined to make things work.

My daughter was the first year of girls at Highgate for year 7. She only stayed for one year. The school is fab and my son was there already but it just wasn’t prepared. There were 25 girls amongst over 100 boys in her year group! It all felt very new of course and someone has to be the first year. I wouldn’t say it’s a no-go but I would check (and I don’t think I did enough checking with Highgate) about exactly how they plan to welcome girls

@ZanyHare what I would say is don't forget that the Pre-Prep as a whole is new. That is the bigger picture. The new Head of Pre-Prep is from a co-ed school and most probably so will the new Reception teachers and TAs that they hire for the start of the school year next September. That should hopefully eliminate any bias they have in their teaching or ethos that you may be concerned about.
It will be interesting to see how everything pans out, there are a lot of unknowns at the moment seeing as the Pre-Prep isn't even built yet!

I surely wouldn't want my girl to be in the minority of girls there, while they are so many strong girls preps in the area. Later cohorts maybe, the very first cohort no no.

Hmm.. I think this is very personal to a family’s mindset and the child’s personality. My daughters are doing WUS 4+ and 7+ (elder one from one of the girls’ schools mentioned here) at the same time—fingers crossed. They wouldn’t be in the minority in the year groups if offered places, and from the second year, girls will make up the majority of the years. The school has been preparing for this transition for a long time. I’m not a teacher, but I work with schools a lot and have little concern about being part of the first cohort of girls in case of WUS.
Academically, WUS is different from typical girls’ prep schools. Those schools are mixed-ability, with only 10–25% progressing to Westminster-level destinations at 11+. WUS for the girls is like the top-set students of the girls preps only and teaching them together from day one in all subjects. Maths and STEM provision at an exceptional level, as is the case in highly selective boys’ and co-ed schools compared to girls’ schools. (One of our reasons for sitting 7+).

I agree with what you say for 7+ and up. If you select in this way then of course you end up with a highly academic cohort (with the motivated parents that come with them)

With them now adding pre-prep and a 4+ they will select in the same way all the other girls preps do. The result being a ‘mixed ability’ cohort, as you say. So then how do they achieve the same results if they have selected the majority of the cohort age 4 rather than 7?

It will be interesting to see how they manage children through the school to be able to maintain their exit results.

I agree. The highly able cohorts you are describing are creamed off other preps at 7+ and 11+. At 4+, the cohort will be more or less than same as other top preps. It is a 'mixed' cohort, selected from 1-2 filtering, it will not be the ultra-filtered cohort you expect. I highly doubt the cohort will be that different from Glendower, Ken Prep, Bute, Falker, etc as the applicant pool is essentially identical. Given this, I do think a girls-only school is better, as girls and boys learn differently at this age range.

I agree with pp - although I would think WUS 4+ will attract alot of the north London crowd in addition to SW London so people will come from everywhere.

My DD goes to one of the mentioned top SW London selective school and no one we know is planning to do the 7+, it would be interesting to see the impact of WUS on the top selective girls preps in terms of 4+ intake and 7+ exits (I wouldn’t put Pembridge in the same category being non selective and would expect a high portion of the girls from there trying out Bute or WUS at 7+).

Girl and boys mature at a different rate so I think girls benefit from being in an all girls calmer environment but boys will benefit in a co-ed environment more.

We are committed to our school but if we had the choice of 4+ at that time at WUS, I would take the test and see what offers we get to make a final decision. I do agree with an earlier poster that I would not be sure being the first cohort with girls and given the massive rise in school fee also

@ChelseaLDN @deanstreet
You’re absolutely right — I had the 7+ cohorts from my eldest in mind when I wrote that, rather more than the 4+. I do agree with your point about the 4+ intake, though there are plenty of reasons families find it appealing.

Some families value a girls-only setting, while many others (growing number of) prefer co-ed for their daughters. It’s very personal — it depends on the family’s values and the individual child — so there’s no point debating which is “better”. I know many girls from girls’ preps sitting WUS 7+ this year, but even more from co-ed preps because their parents want that co-ed path all the way through. If a family is committed to girls-only, it makes sense to choose a girls’ prep and go via 11+, rather than aiming for WUS at 4+ or 7+. (So please go to girls preps and reduce competition for us…hahaha!) For families set on co-ed and with a very academic child, there simply aren’t many highly selective co-ed prep or senior options in this part of London.

Growing within the WUS system — the ethos, the structure, the resources — is a real advantage for families who feel that environment suits their child.

And with the new pre-prep and the expansion of the Under School (without any increase in senior places), entry into Westminster from outside WUS has become even tougher. For the right child, the 4+ route really does offer a stronger long-term chance of reaching a highly academic co-ed senior school which is in short supply locally.

Yes agree with this! If you are after an academically rigorous co-ed, then WUS absolutely should be a top choice and they are smart to corner the market. I think had the original question looked to compare WUS with the North london all through co-eds, then that's a fair fight. But WUS versus the SW London girls preps, is in my opinion skewed towards the girls schools given their established success, experience and the (for some, debatable!) advantages of same-sex education.

Now, a bit OT, but can anyone explain to me why the top boys schools are the ones going co-ed, while the top girls schools remain girls only? Why doesn't Bute start accepting boys, for example?

@ChelseaLDN good question! I hadn't really thought about it like that. Off the top of my head, I would say that independent schools are having to diversify in order to remain financially stable. Many do this by merging with other schools, but I would guess that single girls schools are more sought after than single sex boys schools. Meaning that it is more appealing to parents of girls. Therefore, their admissions numbers are not seeing a dip unlike others.
I used to work at a large all through school that had a diamond structure: coed in Pre-Prep, then girls and boys were taught separately until 6th form where it went back to coed. In these 'modern' times, the School felt it was wrong to say we were inclusive and diverse yet we sent boys one way and girls the other. We would have to justify that we were giving both sexes the same chances in their education e.g. clubs, events, trips etc (which we were of course) but that wasn't the case for all schools in the country.
Just my thoughts anyway 😎

Just to add, in addition to WUS going all-through cood, Kings Wimbledon is doing the same

I’ve got three girls — one in an all-girls school and two in mixed — all for different reasons. They’re just different kids, and they do better in different setups. There’s no magic formula that works for everyone!

I honestly don’t get why people talk like there’s one “better” school model for every kid. London has loads of options because kids aren’t the same, and families want different things. That’s literally why all these choices exist. Demand and supply. We’re lucky we can pick what actually works for us?

And, honestly, where I grew up, separating boys and girls is seen as pretty strange and not great for development. It basically doesn’t happen because nobody asks for it. But London’s a mix of so many cultures and values that single-sex schools do have a place here whatever some say. Families look for different things for different reasons, and that’s great!

On the face of it, it suggests that girls value female-only spaces more than boys value male-only spaces. There exists a GDST but no BDST. The boys don't mind if girls join their school and will keep turning up. They might even prefer it. However, since it is market place and no-one is forced to attend any of these schools, if going co-ed doesn't work, no doubt they will change them back.
I must admit that the small cohort of girls that will actually start and even the long term plan of maintaining W as a boys majority school seemed odd to me. But then, they seem to know what they are doing. It did put me off a little from applying to the Great school, apart from the fact that it would not suit her.