School fee VAT and the council, surely this can’t be happening?

[Sat100]

A close friend has told me that at their school, parents have had to move their child out due to being priced out and unfortunately there are no state school places available in the area. The council is now apparently paying the VAT on behalf of this family on account of the fact there is no space in the state sector within a certain mileage of their home. I am in disbelief…has anyone else heard of this happening?!

BBC coverage of the court case:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp915z1le4ko

Well, they shouldn’t need to pay for 4 kcs if it was a frivolous suit.

and private school enrolment for next year is shaping up to be much lower than government forecasts, meaning good chance the policy will cost tax payers

It’s not a frivolous suit, but it’s not the first time government has had to defend policy in court, and it won’t be the last, and nor should it - the ability to do so is part of our system.

That someone might challenge a policy in court is not a reason not to make a policy.

It happened in my local area about 7 or 8 years ago when a private school went bust. The only difference is, as we are in Scotland, they can’t refuse you a place in your catchment state school. The result was a severely over crowded primary and high school which saw their standards of teaching hit rock bottom. They still haven’t quite recovered.

@ShetlandsI’m sure the Labour Party appreciate your posts on SM

You missed halving growth, welfare cuts, NI policy and increased bills.

Yep and actually I agree with this in general terms, but the problem is that for those for whom mainstream is simply not realistic there is no fallback option because there are simply nowhere near enough places at specialist schools (this isn’t a controversial statement), and these are the kids where the Council ends up paying 70k a year for a place at a private school. With the best will in the world Labour can’t magic up 100s of specialist schools in a year so their hands are tied for the moment at least.

Wheeras if the conservative government had done the proper policy work and adjusted its own policies/ schools programme to keep track with existing/ increasing numbers of SEN kids for the last 15 years the taxpayer might be maintaining a series of good specialist local authority schools rather than paying out 70k PER PUPIL per year into the private sector.

The government has negotiated much reduced rates for KCs and also does a lot of work in house. Compared to the legal teams employed by the private schools their legal spend will be miniscule.

This is rather area dependent though and very misleading anyway. Keeping a school open is massively expensive for the government. The school may well welcome the additional children but it's very bad news overall for public finances if we keep open state schools that could and should be closed.

It is the absolute opposite of a sensible policy. It is an ideologically driven policy that at best is hugely risky and at worst is a complete disaster from an education and financial perspective.

The thing I just can't wrap my head around is why would a serious government that is genuinely dedicated to improving education for everyone start here? Why would this be a cornerstone policy? It is never going to raise enough money to make a meaningful difference for those stuck in sink state schools and does nothing to reform the unequal state sector that is facing a crisis with teacher recruitment and SEN. Even if you think this VAT policy makes sense, it would surely be a small item quite far anyone's list if we are looking at reform and policies that can make a real difference.

We are now stuck with a policy that has been ill thought out and rushed through. Labour feel like they can't back down now as it would be humiliating after making such a ridiculously big deal of it in their manifesto, a manifesto that was silent of WFA changes, disability benefits reforms and NI increases. Yet you insist that this is a 'sensible' policy. The mind genuinely boggles! Labour are going to be so bogged down defending this that they will waste a large amount of their election term focussed on this.

The payment 4 KCs is small fry in terms of public purse cost in comparison to the public purse income from VAT that they are likely to get.

In terms of costs of private schools DCs movement to state school….most schools have places they are just not necessarily the ones us Private Schools parents would like our DCs to attend. This is the true reality unfortunately.

Sorry, what income? Good joke thank you, I needed that!

Are you exempt from paying school fees VAT ?????

The predicted figure the government is using as the amount to be raised through VAT is vastly inflated. The IFS report which they relied upon was based on flawed assumptions. There have been many posts about this. For a start, they didn’t account for the wealthiest parents at the most expensive schools (where the high fees are) pre-paying for years ahead. They assumed that for every child moving to state, the fees saved would instead be spent entirely on goods and services subject to VAT at 20% (and not a penny on foreign holidays, savings, pensions etc). They haven’t accounted for the fact that many grandparents are now stepping in to help with fees, thus saving 40% IHT. Let’s not even pretend that this was about raising money.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that! Very good chance that this policy will cost more than it takes based on numbers so far!

There have been breakfast clubs for years in some schools.

It’s now being expanded to cover every child (including the children of millionaires). They are cutting STEM and Latin funding to provide wealthy families with free cornflakes. Utterly ludicrous.

I hope the millionaires’ children appreciate cheap white toast with margarine and cold hash browns!

Only time will tell.

Fucking amazing that you’ve turned this atrocity by Labour into the Tories fault! 🤣

Fucking amazing that you’ve turned this atrocity by Labour into the Tories fault! 🤣

The case has not been brought by private schools. It has been crowd funded and relates to test cases.

The Tories held power for over 14 years. They broke the SEN system. I was a SENCo under Blair, Brown, and the Tories. I know exactly where the blame lies.

Whether it’s 10p or 10m pennies the government are still gaining income that they werent getting prior to adding VAT to school fees. Whether I like the policy or not is irrelevant - the government is receiving extra income from my paying VAT on my DCs school fees - fact. So I don’t understand your comment that my post was a joke to you - are you not paying the VAT on fees or are exempt from paying VAT on fees ????

Yes, if Tory policy had not cut funding so drastically.

And of course, the Tory academy programme and policy prohibited LA’s being able to open new schools. These have to be opened and run by an academy trust, approved centrally by the DfE.

My LA has planning in place for three new special schools. All having to await a trust to agree to opening and running them. Three years later, no trust in place. No new special schools opened.

Did anyone else see this? https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/kent-taxi-firms-discovered-charged-10048993
No wonder schools have no money!