Private, Grammer or Local School

[bluegoosie]

My cousin's DS is about to enter the wonderful world of year 6 soon. They live in an area with lots of choice but no choice is standing out to them so I thought I'd ask for some advice I can feedback to her.

I have no idea what to advise, their situation is beyond my limited experience and imagination. I am also biased in my views in terms of education being a generally high minded lefty academic living in an ivory tower.

Cousin's DS is relatively high achieving child. School predicts he will get ~110 in Reading Writing and Maths Sats. Solid top 20% but not quite top 10%.

Music grade 4 in violin, grade 3 piano, relatively good progress as only started 2 years ago. Not that big into sports, plays football once per week.

They can chose:

Catchment area school - relatively okay academy, attainment is average and progress score is slightly higher than average 0.6 but does not have a sixth form, 10 minutes walk from the house. She can just do the schools application form when the times comes and don't need to go through any other hoops.

Try for the grammar school - its ~40 minutes away by bus but they are in the postcode catchment area. Hugely competitive something like 1,400 to 2,000 candidates for 180 places. Two stages of exams. Sounds crazy to me but I'm probably out of touch.

The acceptance rate is <9% and DS is currently out of the top 10% of all kids nationwide (according to the assessment his school did), not sure how viable this option is. He's had some tutoring for the 11+, he is still about 10-15% below par, according to his tutor, for the pass mark for stage 1. They haven't started stage 2 papers yet.

Private school - this is the point I wanted to ask the most: the local private school charges £27000 per year or £2230/month in fees (I'm guessing this is average now). Cousin is confident DS can pass the entrance exam, I am told it is not as hard as the grammar school. Cousin also seems to think its going to be easy because private school applications will be low next academic year (not sure how true this is). She's hoping for a bursary and/or music award but their household combined earnings are 140K. They have another kid who would need to go the year after - so they will be playing 2 sets of fees for at least 5-7 years. I know bursaries are means tested and depended on your outgoings as well as your earnings but what are the chances of them getting a bursary?

Public school - Cousin then said in for a penny in for a pound and started looking at public schools. As DS is in a state school she's looking at scholarships and bursaries specific for for state school pupils to attend public school (Eton apparently has one bursary scheme, Christ's Hospital gives out a lot of bursaries too). I am worried they will not fit in, get bullied or become really disillusioned with their semi-detatched house and middle class parents. Of course I may be completely wrong and they might thrive there.

Which do you think is the best option(s) to pursue? Cousin says she wants to decide on a specific path to concentrate on and I have no idea.

It’s worth it if the child needs it. But didn’t get any school I applied to for DD1 and she has SEN. So now I pay.

It sounds like your cousin’s DC can do perfectly happily and successfully at the local catchment school. He’ll have a short commute, local friends, and plenty of time to pursue his interests.

personally, I’d save the money and use it to fund things like extra curriculars (or tutoring later if she finds he’s struggling with something).

Thank you to everyone for the really helpful advice and information. We really appreciate all the responses.

DC and my cousin have settled on applying to two of the local private schools (small, modest and have good reps for being nuturing). I think he's going to really enjoy it there, if he gets in. Not eligible for a bursary in either, scholarships have nominal fee reductions only (3-5%) but we expected this given the VAT increase. Our grandparents are planning on contributing to the fees so it is now just about affordable.

I wish everyone going into the wonderful world of secondary school applications all the best.

top 20% kid ：may struggle in grammar
140k income： suitable for private+scholarshp ,not eligible for bursary

their household combined earnings are 140

@bluegoosie fees will go up by at least 50% between Y7 and Y13 - unless they are anticipating a big jump in income or have a substantial savings pot to fund it, they can't afford private and won't get a bursary.

Have your cousin and DS visited any of these schools? Because if not, they have no idea of the schools would be a good fit for him.

Very few schools now give out huge bursaries and on £140k a year I don't think they would get anything. The schools expect you to exhaust every other possible source of income first - including axing Netflix, Prime etc, remortgaging if you have enough equity in your house. They go through your financial situation to the last penny.

The schools expect you to exhaust every other possible source of income first - including axing Netflix, Prime etc, remortgaging if you have enough equity in your house.

I've read the thread and know that the child in question is not now applying for a bursary, but just wanted to say that this isn't true for the big name schools that have the money to give generous bursaries. DC had a 100% bursary to one of the best schools in the country (we have a bit better than average household income) and we were not expected to do any of those things. The point of a bursary and the amount they give you is not intended to make you worse off as eg remortgaging would. They understand that you need a family home and the types of luxuries your salary would normally afford you - a family holiday, Netflix, the odd takeaway etc. So anyone reading this should not be worried that they will be expected to pare their finances to the bone.

How are you defining the difference between a public school and a private school?

Bear in mind that boys who apply to Tiffin in the first place will likely be in the top 5% to 10% of their class. The acceptance rate is then the top 9% of those who applied.

The Sutton grammars may be a good option though they are still very competitive.

Tiffin will be harder to get into than Harrow or Eton. Better results and free.

4 or so entrance exams is pretty standard.

Given your cousin lives in South West London they will need to apply to state school, including Tiffin, using the pan-London admissions website. It isn’t done school by school using the school’s application form per your OP. There’s also a supplementary application for Tiffin to enrol in the first round exam.

Our kids went to prep school but with the increase in school fees + VAT we are priced out of public school. Most of their friends went on to public schools paid by trust funds etc.

Prep school was lovely - country prep, lots of sports but not wildly academic. Both had scholarships. However we earn too much for bursaries for public school and can't afford 2 x £60k boarding fees.

We now have one at day independent and one at state boarding. Day independent teaching is good but poorly managed, the kids are not motivated and academic standards are mediocre at this school. Sport is no better than ok. Class size is circa 20. Parents evening in person. You email a teacher and get a reply within 24hrs.

State boarding grammar the teaching is excellent, kids are motivated, parents are Uber tiger parents on steroids. I would say sport is ok, not as good as private school but way better than local comp. Class size is 28. Parents evening online and a bun fight which appts you get.. science impossible, already taken by tiger parents.. You email a teacher and 50% never reply.

Child at grammar has had to move to second gear rather than asleep at the wheel at prep school. The child at independent school will move to grammar for sixth form.

Certainly private school kids are no smarter. The % / level of smart kids has been the same at every school. The prep school had it's fair share of kids with SEN and a bit disruptive but compared to the primary school no major SEN e.g. mute, serious speech problems. Both kids report some disruption / fighting etc at school but anecdotally it sounds far higher at the local comp. Lowest set at the independent school had only 10-12 kids, they took maths GCSE early and managed to get 100% pass rate which is excellent.

I recently completed 2 bursary forms and they asked for us to account for every penny down to Netflix/Prime etc to how much we spent on our weekly food shop. Times are tough for everyone including private schools. Luckily we found an alternate way to pay the fees.

It is different at different schools.