Page 5 | Low income and zero bursary award

feefe · 2025-02-08T13:55:32+00:00

Got offers for senior schools but have received zero bursary awards despite being on very low income, living in housing association home and not being able to accept a place without a bursary. I know VAT has a big impact but to be awarded zero help just seems very strange as I would have thought there would be some consideration at least... Any advice as my child is really distraught at working so hard and passing the assessments but the zero bursary awards look like we will need to reject these places...

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GoneGirl12345 · 08/02/2025 17:58

Another76543 · 08/02/2025 17:43

@GoneGirl12345
Harming private schools or even abolishing them would do nothing to improve equality. There is huge inequality in the state system. Some schools are excellent, others fail our children. Families with more money will always be able to give their children an advantage; be that tutoring, extra curriculars, lots of travel, expensive houses in good catchments. If we want to improve social mobility, start with addressing the inequalities in the system which 93% of children use.

As for the VAT point, the taxpayer never was subsidising private schools. Children at private school are costing the taxpayer £0. They are, however, subsidising every child at state school at around £8k a year (including children of the very wealthy).

See my separate responses

boulevardofbrokendreamss · 08/02/2025 18:00

Why do you feel your child deserves a bursary over others? There is is a limited portion and they're normally loss than 30% anyway

KaylaLS · 08/02/2025 18:00

Musicofthespiers · 08/02/2025 17:56

As I said above, Labour abolished the assisted places scheme. Huge numbers of low income families with bright children benefited from that.

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And many haven’t.

What are the huge numbers that you talk of? How many? What percentage of children annually?

If many children were going to be given a bursary for a private education, many more would be at a private school. It has never been a realistic choice for most families.

Oodlesandoodlesofnoodles · 08/02/2025 18:09

Shakeyourbaublesandsmile · 08/02/2025 17:49

Why did you apply if you could not afford it and risk your child being disappointed or distressed about changes

You re not entitled to a bursary

Presumably because it was worth a try? Very foolish to limit your child’s chances in life just in case they are disappointed.

Londonmummy66 · 08/02/2025 18:10

GoneGirl12345 · 08/02/2025 17:57

Ok, thanks. The former Chair then rather than the current leadership.

I didn't think the ST had adopted that position and I was right.

In any case, I wasn't the one claiming the VAT policy would tackle social mobility. Just counter arguing the point that it reduces it.

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Peter Lampl isn't just the former chair of Sutton Trust - he set it up and has given/continues to give it millions. Highly unlikely that ST won't align to his thinking. Interestingly, having put the cash up to make the two GDST schools in Liverpool needs blind, even his wealth wasn't enough to support all the bursaries that required. So they went the opposite way to Labour and made the schools state funded academies. Be interesting if the Trust decided to do the same to some of their other schools if VAT impacted them significantly.

bellocchild · 08/02/2025 18:14

I thought the private sector had given up 100% bursaries years ago? What they can and do offer is a percentage off the full fees for good candidates, to take the edge off the fees for a few parents. And it's not just the fees - the high cost of uniform, trips, sometimes food, and even books needs to be factored in. Your child will probably not be benefitting from the expensive holidays, top range clothes, cars, skiing trips, computers, and hobbies that his affluent peers will enjoy either. At a good state school, this sort of thing will not matter nearly as much, if indeed at all.

Musicofthespiers · 08/02/2025 18:15

KaylaLS · 08/02/2025 18:00

And many haven’t.

What are the huge numbers that you talk of? How many? What percentage of children annually?

If many children were going to be given a bursary for a private education, many more would be at a private school. It has never been a realistic choice for most families.

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Over 75, 000, according to the Sutton Trust.

bellocchild · 08/02/2025 18:19

If Labour hadn't smashed the assisted places scheme in the 90s, many children like the OPs would have been eligible for places in independent schools, if they met the admissions criteria.
The assisted places scheme, like the old direct grant schools (51% fee-paying, 49% LEA-funded)
I benefitted from, were genuinely enabling.

IWantToGetOffHelp · 08/02/2025 18:20

Well this is what everyone who voted Labour and cheered on the VAT voted for. Our school gives 3 full bursaries every year, about 5 half bursaries and many 25-5% off ones. This year they are giving none! They are using all of the money to support families from the feeder prep who would struggle due to the increases. And I’m glad to honest! We private school folk have been completely battered and need to look after ourselves now.

Sorry that means that your child will miss out but we are all finding things hard now.

twistyizzy · 08/02/2025 18:20

KaylaLS · 08/02/2025 18:00

And many haven’t.

What are the huge numbers that you talk of? How many? What percentage of children annually?

If many children were going to be given a bursary for a private education, many more would be at a private school. It has never been a realistic choice for most families.

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20-25% reveice fee assistance each year. That's over 100,000 kids per year. Fee assistance = bursaries + scholarships

IroningBoardAgainstTheWall · 08/02/2025 18:21

bellocchild · 08/02/2025 18:14

I thought the private sector had given up 100% bursaries years ago? What they can and do offer is a percentage off the full fees for good candidates, to take the edge off the fees for a few parents. And it's not just the fees - the high cost of uniform, trips, sometimes food, and even books needs to be factored in. Your child will probably not be benefitting from the expensive holidays, top range clothes, cars, skiing trips, computers, and hobbies that his affluent peers will enjoy either. At a good state school, this sort of thing will not matter nearly as much, if indeed at all.

My niece is on a 100% bursary at the secondary she's at

Another76543 · 08/02/2025 18:21

bellocchild · 08/02/2025 18:14

I thought the private sector had given up 100% bursaries years ago? What they can and do offer is a percentage off the full fees for good candidates, to take the edge off the fees for a few parents. And it's not just the fees - the high cost of uniform, trips, sometimes food, and even books needs to be factored in. Your child will probably not be benefitting from the expensive holidays, top range clothes, cars, skiing trips, computers, and hobbies that his affluent peers will enjoy either. At a good state school, this sort of thing will not matter nearly as much, if indeed at all.

"I thought the private sector had given up 100% bursaries years ago? What they can and do offer is a percentage off the full fees for good candidates, to take the edge off the fees for a few parents. And it's not just the fees - the high cost of uniform, trips, sometimes food, and even books needs to be factored in. Your child will probably not be benefitting from the expensive holidays, top range clothes, cars, skiing trips, computers, and hobbies that his affluent peers will enjoy either. At a good state school, this sort of thing will not matter nearly as much, if indeed at all."

Lots of schools give 100% bursaries, and some offer funding for trips/uniforms on top of that. I know our school does. Plenty of children, including those paying their own fees, do not have luxury cars and holidays either, nor are they all walking around in designer clothes. I'm not entirely sure where this idea comes from. It simply isn't the reality at most schools.

Caravaggiouch · 08/02/2025 18:22

Shame. I can’t afford to send my kids to private school either.

Another76543 · 08/02/2025 18:24

IWantToGetOffHelp · 08/02/2025 18:20

Well this is what everyone who voted Labour and cheered on the VAT voted for. Our school gives 3 full bursaries every year, about 5 half bursaries and many 25-5% off ones. This year they are giving none! They are using all of the money to support families from the feeder prep who would struggle due to the increases. And I’m glad to honest! We private school folk have been completely battered and need to look after ourselves now.

Sorry that means that your child will miss out but we are all finding things hard now.

This is the reality at many schools now. In the case of your school, that 3 children every year who now won't be able to access that education. I'm not sure how anyone thought it would ever improve social mobility. Of course it won't. It's made it even more elite and inaccessible to more families.

Dearover · 08/02/2025 18:36

We private school folk...

This perfectly sums up why most of us don't care.

twistyizzy · 08/02/2025 18:38

Dearover · 08/02/2025 18:36

We private school folk...

This perfectly sums up why most of us don't care.

Then why are you on a thread in Private School board?

bellocchild · 08/02/2025 19:33

"Lots of schools give 100% bursaries, and some offer funding for trips/uniforms on top of that. I know our school does. Plenty of children, including those paying their own fees, do not have luxury cars and holidays either, nor are they all walking around in designer clothes. I'm not entirely sure where this idea comes from. It simply isn't the reality at most schools."
It was certainly the case at the schools I taught at, in the competitive south east. I felt sorry for the children whose parents couldn't afford the lifestyle. And they would (mostly) have done just as well - if not better - at the local state school. I really felt sorry for one lovely girl I taught: she wasn't academically a high flyer but she did her best, and we did our best for her. "I feel so guilty," she said one lesson. "My parents spend so much on my fees, and we're not rich...but I'm still not going to get the grades I need, however hard I try!"

Pelot · 08/02/2025 19:37

All 3 of the private schools our kids attend have hugely limited bursaries now with the VAT. There's no appetite from the parents who are struggling to pay the fees to see money go on bursaries. 2 schools have stopped altogether and 1 isn't offering any incoming kids any bursaries but will continue with the ones already there in a bursary.

KaylaLS · 08/02/2025 19:39

Musicofthespiers · 08/02/2025 18:15

Over 75, 000, according to the Sutton Trust.

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Is that per year?

100PercentFaithful · 08/02/2025 21:10

ghostboxsters · 08/02/2025 15:30

Do you know anything about the private system or are you getting your information from the media?

Private schools reinvest any surplus in education. That's what charities are about. I wouldn't call Oxfam a great Charity myself when you look at where most of the money goes, but it is a Charity.

The political attack on private schools and public animosity towards them will have an impact. Why should they bother, everyone seems very ungrateful. The large private school near me has cancelled the subsidised summer camp it ran for local kids and the free use of its sports facilities by the local junior football. It has close ties with the local primary and is still allowing free use of its pool but I wonder how long that will last. I am not privy to its accounts but I suspect it is in trouble. I also suspect the Head is feeling very Fk U to the world right now. I have no connections to the school but I'm feeling it on their behalf!

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Wow that school sounds wonderful… Showing its true colours.

100PercentFaithful · 08/02/2025 21:12

Pelot · 08/02/2025 19:37

All 3 of the private schools our kids attend have hugely limited bursaries now with the VAT. There's no appetite from the parents who are struggling to pay the fees to see money go on bursaries. 2 schools have stopped altogether and 1 isn't offering any incoming kids any bursaries but will continue with the ones already there in a bursary.

The parents could benefit so many more people by giving to a different charity, rather than funding a tiny number to get a private education.

twistyizzy · 08/02/2025 21:14

100PercentFaithful · 08/02/2025 21:10

Wow that school sounds wonderful… Showing its true colours.

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No, just responding to the attack by Labour. You can't have it both ways, either indy schools are businesses and parents should pay VAT on top of fees OR they aren't. What businesses do you know that provide free of charge access to their facilities?
You can't attack their existence and then expect them to act how they did previously

100PercentFaithful · 08/02/2025 21:14

Another76543 · 08/02/2025 18:24

This is the reality at many schools now. In the case of your school, that 3 children every year who now won't be able to access that education. I'm not sure how anyone thought it would ever improve social mobility. Of course it won't. It's made it even more elite and inaccessible to more families.

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Private schooling is all ready elite so it won’t make much difference.

Pixie2015 · 08/02/2025 21:15

this is not new many children pass the exams for school entry and then are unable to attend when no scholarship or bursary after prepping and working towards the exam.
I feel sorry for the children who are pressured into these situations.

twistyizzy · 08/02/2025 21:16

100PercentFaithful · 08/02/2025 21:12

The parents could benefit so many more people by giving to a different charity, rather than funding a tiny number to get a private education.

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Amd how do you know they aren't giving to other charities? What a ridiculous viewpoint. FYI we used to give nearly £200 per month to charities but as we now have to find an extra 1.3K per term with VAT we have stopped all of those payments. That's how life works, everyone has a budget they have to work to.