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Tax on school fees

370 replies

CheekyUser · 20/12/2024 00:23

of course it won’t affect the really wealthy but we have three kids at private school and we are now going to withdraw them all. We will see them through the remainder of this school year and from September we have secured places at local state schools. When the alternative is free why would we carry on drawing down on our mortgage and sacrificing holidays and be taxed for doing so. Let the state pay.

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Araminta1003 · 30/12/2024 16:25

Well so is private healthcare then, as we have the universal NHS. So when are they going to remove that tax BREAK on private healthcare?

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:27

The elephant in the room is that Labour know indy schools are free from DfE control over curriculum etc. If they continue with plans to dumb down education (relaxing standards etc) then the gap between indy and state will be even more obvious. They have just ended the access to Latin programme in state schools.
Look at Wales if you want to see where British state education will be in 5 years time under Labour ie lowest PISA scores of all UK in maths, reading and science.

tortoise18 · 30/12/2024 16:27

Araminta1003 · 30/12/2024 16:25

Well so is private healthcare then, as we have the universal NHS. So when are they going to remove that tax BREAK on private healthcare?

Soon, hopefully.

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:29

Araminta1003 · 30/12/2024 16:25

Well so is private healthcare then, as we have the universal NHS. So when are they going to remove that tax BREAK on private healthcare?

Agreed, private healthcare is a luxury. I'm not up to speed on the latest tax rules regarding it though so would need to brush up, however in principle I don't disagree with increased or new taxation.

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:29

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:23

On the otherhand, I haven't been accusing anyone of abusive behaviour or of calling people names. Given that how pedantic you are about the correct use of 'tax break', one might be forgiven for thinking you'd use a term like 'gaslighting' correctly.

Gaslighting can involve:
Denying facts or events
Calling someone "too sensitive"

Both of which you did

Araminta1003 · 30/12/2024 16:31

They won’t remove the tax break on private healthcare because that would cost them way too many votes. NHS waiting lists are a postcode lottery and in some cases, private healthcare is a matter of life and death and people remortgage their homes to save a relative’s life faster or they pay up to get better quickly to work. So it is counterproductive to charge VAT on healthcare. Just as it is bonkers to charge VAT on kids who were moved to private schools due to their SEND. That is the part of their policy which will make it fail. It is so glaringly obvious one wonders what they are playing at.

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:32

tortoise18 · 30/12/2024 16:27

Soon, hopefully.

Except it won't because Labour want the private healthcare sector to help support NHS. See how the ideology doesn't add up. Private education = bad, private healthcare = good. They could of course use the same reasoning to use private education sector help out state but then that wouldn't satisfy their ideology or the funding of the Labour Party.
One of Labour’s biggest donor is owner of a private healthcare company.

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:33

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:29

Gaslighting can involve:
Denying facts or events
Calling someone "too sensitive"

Both of which you did

No, I disagree with you about the facts so by your definition I could accuse you of gaslighting too. I won't though.

Nor, at any point, did I call you "too sensitive". I did ask whether you were letting your emotions get in the way in this, but only after your own post suggested you were. If I inferred wrongly I apologise. Do you ever give apologies yourself?

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:33

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:33

No, I disagree with you about the facts so by your definition I could accuse you of gaslighting too. I won't though.

Nor, at any point, did I call you "too sensitive". I did ask whether you were letting your emotions get in the way in this, but only after your own post suggested you were. If I inferred wrongly I apologise. Do you ever give apologies yourself?

Frequently when I'm wrong
So you are saying I myself suggested that I was being emotional so you just highlighted it back to me? How thoughtful of you.

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 16:35

nervouslandlord · 30/12/2024 16:15

@ScrollingLeaves
Well they'll be paying stamp duty on that house, so contributing in that way I suppose.

But also let's dispel this myth of people buying into leafy areas for the good comps and somehow gaming the system.
I no longer live there, but used to live in an area of SW London where houses sell for a lot of money and aspirations are high. Guess what? It is also super well provisioned with private schools - Kingston Grammar, LEH, Surbiton, Hampton Court House etc.
People with money pay for education wherever they happen to live.

Yes but people without enough send them to state and need to be within the catchment areas.
Houses in those areas will increase in price over and above because wealthier people, that would have used private schools, will offer over and above to buy them.
Our house is seeing exactly this. People were falling over themselves to buy it, raising their offers because they can’t afford the private school on the other side of town. It’s for two over subscribed grammar schools and those looking to buy currently have their kids in the prep school ( there were three families ) but are moving them out now. The house opposite us is seeing the same huge hike.
It’s selling for in excess of £100,000 over the average valuation, a large % hike.

tortoise18 · 30/12/2024 16:37

Araminta1003 · 30/12/2024 16:31

They won’t remove the tax break on private healthcare because that would cost them way too many votes. NHS waiting lists are a postcode lottery and in some cases, private healthcare is a matter of life and death and people remortgage their homes to save a relative’s life faster or they pay up to get better quickly to work. So it is counterproductive to charge VAT on healthcare. Just as it is bonkers to charge VAT on kids who were moved to private schools due to their SEND. That is the part of their policy which will make it fail. It is so glaringly obvious one wonders what they are playing at.

I agree they won't do this until the NHS is sorted out at least partially from the mess of the last 15 years. But once the NHS is in a decent position, it would be a valid line to take. State education however is not quite in the complete hole that the NHS is in, it's not a question of going private or getting no service at all.

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:39

twistyizzy · 30/12/2024 16:32

Except it won't because Labour want the private healthcare sector to help support NHS. See how the ideology doesn't add up. Private education = bad, private healthcare = good. They could of course use the same reasoning to use private education sector help out state but then that wouldn't satisfy their ideology or the funding of the Labour Party.
One of Labour’s biggest donor is owner of a private healthcare company.

You're reaching, it's not that black & white. How do independent schools support state education in the same way the private health sector can support the NHS?

This is the problem with arguing against this new tax policy for independent schools, the scales of fairness are not balanced in their favour. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate you may be personally affected by it but in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge societal issue.

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 16:41

DuckDuckG00se · 30/12/2024 16:39

You're reaching, it's not that black & white. How do independent schools support state education in the same way the private health sector can support the NHS?

This is the problem with arguing against this new tax policy for independent schools, the scales of fairness are not balanced in their favour. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate you may be personally affected by it but in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge societal issue.

The tax payer doesn’t have to pay for all those kids education for a start so there’s more money to spread around the state kids.

Meanwhile people who get medical treatment quicker because they pay for it directly and benefit from tax breaks is just as much an issue.
If we are all going to be equal, we should be just that

I have no idea why my first para re saving to the tax payer is funny Duck

ScrollingLeaves · 30/12/2024 16:48

nervouslandlord · 30/12/2024 16:15

@ScrollingLeaves
Well they'll be paying stamp duty on that house, so contributing in that way I suppose.

But also let's dispel this myth of people buying into leafy areas for the good comps and somehow gaming the system.
I no longer live there, but used to live in an area of SW London where houses sell for a lot of money and aspirations are high. Guess what? It is also super well provisioned with private schools - Kingston Grammar, LEH, Surbiton, Hampton Court House etc.
People with money pay for education wherever they happen to live.

It’s true about the stamp duty, but when they sell the house one day they will make a good profit and not pay tax.There are property millionaires sending their children to state schools in London.

As to your next point I completely agree that there are both free and fee paying schools in affluent leafy suburbs. But the fact there are private schools too does not make it a myth that people move to them to get school places at sought after free schools, including free grammar schools ( which not all areas have the privilege of having.)

Look at estate agent blurbs. They will always mention a provision of good schools of both kinds as a selling point.

Meanwhile some people live in poorer areas with less good housing in order to afford private schools. Some parents may choose to down size/change area to make the difference to afford the vat. Bursary children could be living in very much less well -off areas.

We all need well educated children. Education is never a ‘luxury’.
We should all be paying more tax to the pound, if we are above a certain income, including those called working people who earn a wage above a certain income, in order to provide good education for the country’s children.

It is wrong that the people now being charged vat on school fees for their child’s education have already paid tax and also already save the country £7500 per annum per child/ over £100,000 per child over 14 years.

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 16:54

LavenderFields7 · Today 15:36

Will private tutoring be taxed too

Unlikely as lots of Labour politicians probably use tutors.

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 16:55

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 16:54

LavenderFields7 · Today 15:36

Will private tutoring be taxed too

Unlikely as lots of Labour politicians probably use tutors.

Source?

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 17:02

Source?

No source - just a guess.

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:04

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 17:02

Source?

No source - just a guess.

Why would you assume that lots of Labour politicians use tutors?

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 17:04

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 16:54

LavenderFields7 · Today 15:36

Will private tutoring be taxed too

Unlikely as lots of Labour politicians probably use tutors.

👍👏

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 17:05

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:04

Why would you assume that lots of Labour politicians use tutors?

People can assume whatever they like it’s a free country……still

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 17:07

Why would you assume that lots of Labour politicians use tutors?

I’m not sure why my comment has provoked you so much - are you a Labour politician who uses tutors?

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:07

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 17:05

People can assume whatever they like it’s a free country……still

Edited

Yes but assumptions that are based on some form of logic tend to be much more credible - for most of us anyway.

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:08

Barbadossunset · 30/12/2024 17:07

Why would you assume that lots of Labour politicians use tutors?

I’m not sure why my comment has provoked you so much - are you a Labour politician who uses tutors?

No I'm a mum who has never had to.

SavingTheBestTillLast · 30/12/2024 17:11

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:07

Yes but assumptions that are based on some form of logic tend to be much more credible - for most of us anyway.

I would say anyone who sends their kids to state and seeing their kids could do better with private tuition and have the money to pay for it will do so.
If they care for their kids future which, by their very place in society are clearly aspiring to greater things, MPs are one of the groups in society who will logically follow this path.
Seems obvious really

PrimativoZinfandel · 30/12/2024 17:11

I'm not provoked. Just a bit weary of the same old tired tropes about tutoring of DC in state schools. It's so unfounded and just smacks of the real politics of envy.