To send DS to private sixth form or not?

[ChampsNCanape]

In the town I am living in there are two sixth forms - one is independent and the other is a state school. The state sixth form is good and is rated 'outstanding' by Ofsted, and they achieve quite high A-level results as well (comparable to some cheaper independent schools in the local area). The independent school has excellent results - probably about 15-25% better than the state school however it is also quite expensive (even compared to other independent schools), it is £35k per year for day school and that doesn't include uniform, food, trips etc.. We can afford it however wonder if it is necessary.

Private one is part of a larger school (but a large amount of sixth formers there are new to the school). State one is its own school but is related to a few secondaries where most of their students come from (DS is not from one of these).

Where do the pupils from the grammar traditionally move on to? Is there one preferred over the others in the area. Friends children attended a highly regarded Church of England secondary which while not a Grammar had good outcomes. It only went up to 16. Although the city has a number of Sixth form colleges it was noted that a great majoriy of the students chose to attend the same sixth form college. Would your son not like to go somewhere with his current contemporaries?

Some attend the state school we are looking at, a lot go to this other state school (too far for us) and a some attend independent schools around the area.

Going to a high performing school means his results will be taken in context of that school for uni.

The fact that he attended a Grammar to sit his GCSEs will be factored in too. He's already had a 'privileged' start.

You'll find that a lot of private school DC end up at the best state sixth forms because they have a bigger choice for a start of A Levels and the quality of teaching is excellent

Look at the value added. DS had bursary for private school and they had a really high value added score between GCSE and A level. You could see how they achieved this the classes were small, the number of hours of teaching per week was far higher, foreign language tuition was 1:1 with native speaker. There was a much wider range of academic subjects so much more choice (but few vocational subjects). Most of the students were not super rich and were not snobby (although obviously there were some who were but the same is often true of Grammars). Mixing with foreign students has its benefits, DS has friends all aroud the world. It is true private schools are getting fewer students into Oxbridge etc than in past, but if you get a grade higher than you would elsewhere you will still have loads of great options. A benefit for parents is everything is covered by school - revision classes, extra curricular, transport, volunteering, meals, UCAS prep. I went to a state comprehensive and the amount of support DS got compared to me was vast - although being spoon-fed can have its disadvantages in terms of self-discipline. At A level the difference of one grade can be significant in terms of uni choices. If you are going to do private school at all then A level is probably the time to do it.

Having been involved in both sectors, as it’s for Sixth Form, save your money at this stage.
Students at A level are opting to be there, and as the state school has had such a great report, your son will be fine there.
I hate to tell you this but private schools don’t have special teachers who have been trained in a special college. Staff often move between the two.
Yes, you will be getting some advantages for your money but for that amount, I would rather keep that cash the future. It would be far better kept for University fees and expenses.

The top universities will have over 30% of students who have gone to private schools. Another 15% will be from top performing grammar schools. In some subjects these percentages would be higher. There is a bit of a culture war around this (or an attempt to start one). E.g., the 93% club is very active in some universities. But my own experience is that state school students face no snobbery. So I don’t think that’s a strong reason to pay £70K. Nor, as others have said, will it give your DC a benefit when applying to universities. But if the private school you have in mind is one of the really good ones (top academically and amazing facilities) then I would do it as I think of a great education as a good thing in itself, not instrumentally. A top secondary is much more than the grades and university destinations. The intangibles are many. The right comparison is not between paying 70k and paying nothing. It’s between paying 300+ (if you had gone private all the way) and paying 70K.

He won't be, don't believe everything you read. Loads and loads of kids at uni went to state schools. My ex-neighbours' two children dityd and others I know.

If the state sixth form is 'outstanding', I would send him there. You obviously have some faith in your son's ability, show it. However he also needs to agree, his happiness while studying is very important.

Are you sure the entry requirements are the same? Lots of private sixth forms ask for a 7 at GCSE in the subject they want to study and a state may settle for a 4 which massively skews the results. Private schools do not need to publish their results to compare against state but you can see them against other private schools.

£35k per year for a day school is incredibly expensive, OP.

We went down the (less expensive) private school route for both of my boys because there was no state school provision for DS1. Eventually the LA agreed to move him to a special school. DS2 stayed in private because it’s all he’s ever known and he has various needs which are met in that specific school. He’s still there for sixth form, as again we felt his needs could be best met at that school. However a fair few of his friends have left and gone to local sixth form colleges or grammars. They are all doing well and are happy. Personally I think spending that much money for an ‘unknown’ school (as in, your son hasn’t been there for years already and has done well in the state sector) is probably unnecessary. Just my opinion though.

Look in the mirror. You'll see another rude, arrogant, condescending, unpleasant snob.

You would probably be very judgemental if someone else made such vile, sweeping comments (about people who weren't on your out-group list), but you don't notice how unpleasant you're being yourself.

Just because the results at the private sixth form at 15-25% better, doesn't mean that an individual student's results (i.e. your DSs) would be 15-25% better. By all means look at both, and there may be things that the private option offers that the state school doesn't (think more course choice, better facilities, more help with UCAS etc), but all things being equal, if you have a good state option locally and your DS is a keen and motivated student, I'd save the money.

you could break it down by subject.

So which A levels / IB subjects does your DS want to study and which degree ? Then compare the results for state vs private.

Frankly unless there is a massive differential, I'd go state and use the 'saved' money for uni fees

I wouldn't be forking out 70K for the private sixth form when there's an outstanding state sixth form available.
You can use some of that money for tutors if you feel it's necessary and for enrichment activities and then the rest of it can be used to see him nicely through university and getting set up after graduation.
Flashy facilities are not a reason to fork out that amount of money.

Omg I work in sixth form state school.
Stop buying privilege
Hd needs to mix jn the real world.
35k is insanity.

What would you be getting for your money at that age though if you already have a bright child who can apply themselves and have an Outstanding college available to you.

I understand the pull to private for secondary, excellent sports, music and drama opportunities, lots of educational visits etc etc. but by 16+ is that worth it? If your child doesn't play an instrument to a high level, or play a sport for county / national are they really going to pick one up in the two years most people start dropping activities? Go to the free college, spend £5k on tutoring and 'worthy' educational experiences if you must, save the rest to help with accommodation at uni.

We went down the private route for 6th form

pros were outstanding pastoral care, a strong house system where the house mistress kept a close eye on them which worked well for my DD in year 12. Academically they were all over them and they had really personal teaching

CONS: By year 13 the rules were stifling. They were all leaving school during the day when they weren’t meant to, they made all the excuses under the sun to avoid the compulsary sports twice a week. The rules up until the final day were very strict and the micromanagement was too much for 17/18 year olds. I didn’t appreciate constant emails about the wrong black shoes, slightly short skirts etc in year 13. They didn’t have the chance to be independent and build resilience

for us it was worth every penny as it DD had been desperately unhappy at her previous school and needed the pastoral support and an opportunity to reinvent herself. Eldest stayed at an excellent state school and actually got better results and didn’t need the extras

Is the 35k per annum pre or post VAT ? if it's pre-vat fees you've got to allow an extra 6-7k per annum. Our revised fee schedule was only sent out today and I'm not sure it's ok the website yet for prospective parents to see so you might want to check that if you haven't already

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew Post VAT. Around £10K-15K more than other schools in the area (but better).

I would say the state one sounds fine. dd was private just for GCSEs, state for large 6th form (lots of subjects, zero extra-curricular) and is now at a top university having a great time, mixing with both state and private school kids. I genuinely think there is a lot of peculiar mythology over the whole ‘snobby’ thing.

I think if you have a good State option take it and save the money for Uni.
Both mine went to Private Secondary and State 6th form, largely because their school had no 6th form but they might have chosen that anyway.
As for uni DD's friends are a mix

I would go with the state option and save the money for uni or a house deposit.

The state school 100% - it’s what we’re doing.

Plus it will keep him in good stead when he goes to uni managing the difference between state & private sector