Primary, Secondary, both, neither?

[KCSIE]

I have 2 DC, eldest will be starting school next year, youngest to follow in a few years time.

We are keeping options open and looking at local state and local private schools and all the permutations of fully private, fully state, part private part state (and which way around?) etc.

We've done our sums and can afford to send both to private for their full education if we want to (allowing for year on year increases VAT).

But I'm so torn. Especially when they're so young. It feels like a huge decision to be making and I'm quite overwhelmed by the prospect. Especially of my 1yr old in 17yrs time, e.g.

What path did you choose for your DC, if you had the option, and why?

We sent DD to an independent prep school and then on to a very well regarded state grammar for secondary + sixth form. Looking back I wish we would’ve just taken the financial hit and kept her in the private sector for her entire schooling. She struggled with the massive jump in class sizes and less personalised teaching when she got to secondary (along with most of the other kids who had made the same private - state switch!). Don’t get me wrong, DD still did well in GCSEs, A levels etc but she definitely had further potential. If you can comfortably afford it then I think that private is a no brainer.

I agree with PP. We did exactly the same, private prep & local grammar. DC did brilliantly academically and didn’t particularly struggle with the class size, but private offer so much more.

Depends on your local schools I would say. Primaries tend to be of a decent quality in general, however in secondary there can be bigger issues linked to subject teacher shortages and behaviour. In our area most schools are at least 'good' however our local catchment secondary has only 33% of pupils passing English and math GCSEs and a problem with bullying according to Ofsted, so we moved DS to private then.
If money is no object go for private all through, however I think you get more value for money in secondary onwards.

It depends very much on what your state schools are like as this may influence your route. Where we are we have a number of outstanding primaries. We did state primary and then moved private at Yr5 to avoid the 11+ exams. We live in SW London where the 11+ is a brutal process and unnecessarily stressful. By moving at Yr5 we were given a straight through option and didn’t sit any other exams. If you have good primaries where you are and aren’t in SW London (or North London - that seems just as bad), then I would consider state primary and save your money. You could use it for a tutor for 11+.

Thank you for your reply so useful and insightful.

Do you think if you'd opted for the reverse so state primary and private secondary you'd still have felt the same? I guess there wouldn't be a huge jump up in class size as it would be the reverse.

I feel like near us the state primaries are plentiful and good whereas the secondary schools are not so great.

This is what we're wondering. There are so many state primaries near us that are good (or better according to Ofsted) but the state secondary schools aren't that great for results, behaviour and reputation.

That's a good thought to avoid to 11+. How did your child cope with the change in Y5?

ETA: Obviously all children are different and will manage change differently. I'm curious from a perspective of leaving established friends behind and moving on before others.

I think most children get a good education in a state primary. There is a lot of rigour due to Ofsted and internal assessment/oversight from academy chains. You can always have a tutor if you'd like to close any gaps/push further. If you have a local grammar this would be a good option too for secondary. A couple of preps near us actually had issues with safeguarding (keeping records up to date and a locked fire door), when ISI inspected, staggering when you consider that parents are paying. This would not have ever happened in a state school.

You need to look closely at what is available locally. Every area is different. Do you have grammar schools? Where will your child flourish?

My DS went to a tiny rural village primary with an annual intake of 17. The classroom education was good, sport was not.

Local state senior school was poor (especially for boys - check sex-specific results) so I moved DS to private at 11. He says in some subjects (English literature, geography, history etc) it took him two years to catch up.

I have only ever worked in state secondary so couldn't comment on private schools from the inside. But there is the most massive difference in every way between primary and secondary schools in England. The whole way they teach and how they organise is totally different. This is something to bear in mind, almost no primaries have problems with behaviour because of the social development stage of the children. And children with SEND like adhd and asd and dyslexia do much better in primaries on the whole because of the model, one teacher for all lessons and usually shorter lessons and more rewards and fewer sanctions.
Also primaries can not enter children for SAT'S which is how their results are judged whereas secondaries are judged on cohort size no exceptions in year 11 and few parents, no offence, understand what the data presented by central government actually means. For example children get the same results when the stats are adjusted for all variables, whichever school they are in regardless of ofsted ranking. So sending a child to a school ranking outstanding doesn't improve the likelihood of them getting good grades.
Having said that unless your local secondary school impresses you when you look round don't send them there. I have nothing against private by the way.

If they are starting school next year, haven’t you missed the boat for private?

They were both fine with the move - settled in quickly and made great new friends.

I moved my 2 dc part way through reception as one dc (later confirmed autistic) was struggling and needed a calmer environment with more flexibility. Both children (send and non send) have benefitted massively from their private school, and I am so grateful we were able to make the move - it has been the making of my NT but shy child and their ND sibling is absolutely thriving. Having spent time volunteering in both their private and state schools, there can be a world of difference between state and private sectors, even in early years, it just might be less apparent from the outside. I understand people prioritising secondary where needed, as there is a much clearer link between school and child’s outcome, but I think a lot happens in primary that can really shape a child’s attitude towards learning and self - perception.

it will depend on your specific school options, though - I wouldn’t be so excited about some of the private options in our area and there’s a lot of variability within the state sector as well.

Will depend on schools, but many will have places up until the start of the year in reception. It is a minority of private schools that follow a selective process for 3+. It isn’t unusual for early years / ks1 to be undersubscribed as many start in state and then move to private from ks2 onwards.

I didn’t realise that, all the ones near me send their offer letters around this time for 3+, they are oversubscribed though

We’ve done private all the way through from the school nursery class. We got it wrong with the first school though. Not because it was a bad school or anything but as first time parents we didn’t really know what we were looking for, we hadn’t given any thought to secondaries because it seemed ages away but most importantly it’s impossible to tell when your child is only 2/3 what they’ll be like when they’re older and where their strengths and weaknesses lie. So with hindsight I’d say go state for infant school and move at 7 for Y3 entry (or 8+/Y4 if it’s a more traditional school) - that’s a natural entry point and you’ll know by then what will suit your child.

Our current front runner on the private side is a EYFS-Y8 prep. They have 50% filled their EYFS spaces already so we've got time.

Don’t feel like you have to answer this, but just mentioning it because it’s exactly what we didn’t consider properly first time around… Do you actually want a school that goes through to age 13/Y8? 13+ is usually to boarding school. 11+ is to day school. You may want to look carefully at the leavers destinations and ask the school how many leave at the end of Y6 vs. Y8 and how they help with both before making a decision.

If we could have easily afforded it we would have sent our LO to good private schools all the way through.
However our finances did not allow for this so we did state till year 7 and private for 7 -12.
The small class sizes, trips and resources at our private prep and eventual senior school are exceptional. Now that we can afford it, I would never want to go back to state.

Thank you, yes we have considered this. Boarding school is absolutely not an option for us.

The prep is a feeder school for a local private secondary/college day school, more than 85% of their leavers go there at the end of Y8. The rest of the leavers go to other private day schools in our county, or abroad.

If you'll allow me please could I ask (but don't feel obliged to answer) - did you find they could dive right in on an even footing into private Y7 or was there a gap in their starting point compared to their peers?

however I think you get more value for money in secondary onwards

I would definitely agree with this. Mine started private in Yr7. They had no issues settling as many children join at that stage. If you have a great grammar school consider that route but private has been a more gentle route.

Most of the UK does not have grammar schools, or only has access to very selective grammar schools that take a tiny % of kids. It is likely that the reduced number of parents using private schools will result in tougher competition for grammar schools even if they are an option.

I would use state primary and look for a private secondary, doing some tutoring in the meantime if necessary (that is basically what we did and most of my friends who have used any private schooling at all have done, although we are not in the UK). Parents can fill in gaps relatively easily at primary level IMO. It's at secondary that you need to start worrying more about bad peers, if the secondaries in your area are not very good; it's also harder to fill gaps at secondary level as the teaching becomes more specialized and kids become stroppier about learning from parents. Kids can often commute alone to secondary school if your public transport links are decent. You will also have the opportunity to save up fees in advance, and keep an eye on your local state secondaries to see if they improve in the meantime.

Kids are currently at a decent, village type state primary school

We plan on going private for secondary

The main reasons for me is the education seems more rigorous, smaller classes and peers with similar minded parents.

Yes, every school has it's problems with drugs or whatever, but I am hoping that if the parents place high value on education, the kids might. I went to a dog rough public secondary and the kids there were really just trying to survive. It was survival of the fittest really.

It's also closer to our home and a beautiful campus!

Our daughters have been in private education from 3 and will continue until 18. My experience is private school children are taught some rounded elements which aren't included within state school; pronunciation from 3 to 11 is one example. Others are prep dependant choice of languages, LAMDA, additional sports at a young age.

Its a very personal choice, I wouldn't chop and change between the two personally I find the educational extras valuable from 3 till end of school.