To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

It is a luxury because it is not a necessity. It’s not about how good or bad it is versus state education.

And yet I know of children who have behaved appallingly in their private school.

Unsurprisingly Brigette Philipson is apparently facing the sack over the "abject chaos" of this hopeless policy. Well deserved.

I find this statement absolutely horrible - the idea that parents who can’t afford a private education don’t care about their kids future is one hell of a take - you pretty much imply nurses or teachers or anyone not in the top 5% of earners…just don’t care about their kids eduction?

Agreed!

The amount we save them by not taking up a state place, reducing the numbers in state schools and still paying tax like some of the population. People do realise that state numbers will increase and that's a fact. I know of children leaving our school at Christmas because of the increase. The magical increase of teacher Labour keeps bleating on about will give 1.5 teachers per school. Ridiculous. For what?

We do not go on multiple holidays a year. Some choose to spend thousands on a summer holiday, new car, evenings out, updated wardrobe etc. We choose to put that into our child's education.

I don't judge your lifestyle. Why do so many feel the need to not only judge our choices, but also feel entitled to belittle our children in the process? For instance, I've seen so many comments on threads saying " well little Tarquin will have to sell one of his horses". Its so obnoxious and leaves a very nasty taste in my mouth.

VAT will be painful rather than fatal for us.

I actually don’t mind the vat. I know it’s a choice. I don’t even mind paying 50% of family income as tax. I DO resent the fact that those aspiring to make money, to work really hard, to want to be a net contributor to the system and to choose to make social sacrifices to achieve that - are derided and demonised. I hate how this country is so determined to tear other people down rather than build themselves up. it’s grubby and unproductive.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Some deeply unpleasant attitudes on this thread.

The average family can’t afford private school.

They can still have the best education possible at a state school. As a secondary school teacher I find the idea that you can only get a great education by paying offensive!

Yes. It's not that I don't care about the issue - I do. It's that I agree with the decision made and don't care about people on £150 pa struggling to afford both private school and 'only' a few holidays a year. I don't care about those struggles, they are not meaningful in comparison to the struggles faced by the other 80%

You dont know me, I know plenty of people who go and have been and who have worked and still work in private schools.

It's not like labour haven't had this on their agenda for many many years, so many years to prepare of this.

I don't see many parents dropping their kids of at Haberdashers in Ford Fiestas, so I can't sympathise that Tarquin and Jamima are going to miss out on the French Riverara this year.

How is paying for private any different to buying a more expensive house to be in catchment to a good school and then paying for a tutor too? Education will never be equal. At least private school parents don’t cost the state a penny whilst state school parents like me cost the taxpayer money and I’ve played my part in driving up house prices by the nice school.

Income tax paid to fund state school places that are not used at point of need.

Additional Income tax paid to generate the fees. Many including myself would work less if no fees to pay so 20k fees equates to a similar additional amount in income tax paid.

250k lifetime fees for 1 child generates around 200k extra in income tax.

Total cost to the state to educate our children is nil.

Average state place costs over 100k per child. Most people don’t pay enough tax to cover their own children’s places let alone those others as private school parents do.

Maybe, just maybe you might have to book only one holiday a year OP. Now there's a thought.

The thing is, for most people in private education, it’s no massive deal, it’s one less holiday a year, maybe one half-term holiday goes; no big deal - it’s certainly not worth putting your DC in a school where they might learn men can become women, and that there should be no winners at sports day, in case any unsporty kids feel less than. They’re all winners!! Enjoy watching unsupported kids throw chairs around the classroom - it’s character-building!

Nope.

But on a serious level, it’s children who didn’t get on in school for whatever reason; children with additional needs who don’t hit the SEN threshold; or SEN kids who weren’t offered a suitable option; or those who live in an area where the local school doesn’t function - these are the kids who will be truly affected.

And nothing will change in the state sector; but then that’s not the point anyway - it’s a punitive policy of envy. Who cares if it doesn’t help the state school kids, as long as it removes privilege, great!! Everyone will be equal (and lesser).

House prices in ‘good’ school areas have already been pushed up; this policy does nothing to help real people.

Maybe they can't ... so send them to the local comprehensive at a cist of £40k to the taxpayer for their high-school education ....a d more for sixth form. Get a grip! Do the sums! (I don't go to private school, nor did my child)

Only 7% of kids in private, it is a massive privilege. The tax is aimed at improving state education. Yes some people are already struggling, if you’re remortgaging to fund fees before vat then you can’t really afford it.
I would not have been able to afford for both kids to have a full private education. I am paying for 3 years for one child as he’s had an awful experience in state and I can just about afford that. I’m still in favour of the vat because I know it’s a massive privilege. I would be delighted if it wasn’t bought in until September, but accept that I will be paying more as someone with evidently broader shoulders. I’d love for labour to find the money from the super rich, but I’m in a much stronger position than most, obviously.

im not taking holidays, I’m working my arse off in a job I’d happily leave if I didn’t need it, I’m going to be left with very few savings, my car will be driven into the ground before I replace it, but I’ve accepted that.

There are plenty of private school parents in very expensive houses, very expensive cars and going on very expensive holidays. I’m definitely one of the poorest parents!

Everyone should be entitled to a great education, it is possible, but it needs investment, we aren’t attracting graduates into teaching. I’d argue we also need to reform the curriculum and improve the culture in schools, but all that needs funding too.

Doesn't this policy consistently poll very well? So why would she be sacked?

I have several friends who have sacrificed holidays and bigger houses to pay for their children’s education so am aware that it isn’t always the super wealthy who send their children to private school.

however these schools are not charities they are businesses. It shows as they had the option of absorbing the VAT but many have chosen not to as it would eat into their profits.

I understand that but if they can’t afford it they can’t afford it just like the average person with kids in state school. I don’t understand why they think they’re so special.

Most people have no way of making sacrifices to even think of doing this.
Get in the real world

They’ve openly stated that the vat raised by the policy will go into training more teachers and improving the standard of state education, that’s the point of it.

I mean how that’s tracked is another whole conversation but that’s the overall idea.

I’m not sure of the relevance of that. Clearly not every private school pupil is better behaved than every state school pupil but the average level of conduct in the private schools I’ve experienced is light years ahead of that in the average state school.

It’s hardly a shock as any bad behaviour in a private school has to be clamped down on immediately as the other fee paying parents won’t tolerate it. Much harder to demand a state school takes action as you have far less leverage.

Oh and they are extremely hard working.

Poll well with who?!

there are rumours she up for the chop due to this

There is a focus on improving state education, why should 93% of kids get a raw deal? It’s imperative for the UK future that state schools function well. I’m hopeful that with a government made of people who mostly went to state school we will actually see a commitment to change. Things were certainly better under the last labour government!