Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

You and me both Kev. I was just wondering why there were so many private school parents posting. Just checking... is there a specific " state school" topic group? Genuine question.

No, I'm on active conversations. I wouldn't even consider reading a board populated by private school parents.

It's not just this thread. The bloody vibran constant WHINING about vat / no longer buying a leg up is draining. If your kids are bright and you support then they'll do fine in a comp. Do that! It's not rocket science.

This may well be true but all of the people I know from state school who have even got interviews at Cambridge have been predicted A stars and As. They then have to interview well, perform in whatever tests there are well and then get those grades in their A Levels while maybe having other challenges going on.

I sometimes think on the private schools threads that people think that getting into a high ranking Uni from state school is practically a dead cert if you live in the "right" postcode.

Regarding the higher number of Firsts, might some of these be subjects related (Classics, etc)? Also, private school children are less likely to need to have jobs in the school holidays and maybe more access to things that help with their studies. I wouldn't really be trying to push for more Firsts, it devalues the whole thing if everyone was getting them.

😟

I do agree with much actually. This country is an outlier country re the percentage of privately educated children. That seems to be because the state system is not up to scratch across the whole country and there is insufficient SEN provision (among other reasons). I think a lot of private school parents would prefer not to feel they need to fork out hard earned cash to these schools. But they do, for a myriad of reasons, not just the clichéd ones portrayed by some opponents of the private system. Much better to live in the US where only the super rich go private.

Could you try to apply just a tiny bit of analytical skills before making a statement?

The 8 schools linked there are:

Hills Road Sixth Form College, Cambridge (state sixth form college)
Peter Symonds College, Hampshire (state sixth form college)

Westminster School, London (independent)
Eton College, Berkshire (independent)
St Paul's School, London (independent)
St Paul's Girls' School, London (independent)
King's College School, London (independent)
Magdalen College School, Oxford (independent)

These 6 indis are the very best, the most selective schools in the entire country. To get there child needs CATs of 135+ as a min and a lot of very hard work. One may argue that competition for places in these schools is higher than in Oxbridge. A very significant proportion of kids there are on bursaries, some on 100%+. And those who underperform don't make it to A-levels there. So I'd say that every single one of these kids deserve places at the very top unis.

Yeah yeah.. "wouldn't even consider reading a board populated by private school parents" You're still on this one I see though. You can't stop joining in with us all!

Because it's coming up on ACTIVE CONVERSATIONS

No wonder you need to pay for education. Very clear why.

This is your anecdata based on the sample you see. I have mine.

What really matters is stats. And stats disagree with your anecdata and many other stereotypes.

But you know what topic you are on now. And yet you still remain..contributing away..along with all the private school parents

Yes, absolutely. I actually really
considered dropping out of university (not Oxbridge, tbf) as I felt like an imposter in my seminars. I dreaded them. I had gone from being a high achiever at sixth form and I only dropped a few marks from a perfect score in my A level in the subject I studied at university. I was well read too, for someone my age. But I still didn’t have the cultural capital to engage with confidence or conviction. I came from a loving, supportive WC home but I didn’t come from a family where we talked about the kind of things my course mates and flatmates had: like politics, the economy, the arts. I had only ever gone to a museum on a school trip.

I did end up getting a First and I think my lecturers picked up on my imposter syndrome. I remember one insisting I look at an essay score as I used to put off checking them for days.

It is staggeringly ignorant to not recognise the privilege that comes from a private education, even if one leaves it with pretty mediocre qualifications.

I can see your point. But surely the onus is on the state sector to raise standards so that its pupils don't leave feeling unable to compete at university. Assuming you are saying it is inadequate compared to private education. The aim should be that a state education is as good as or better than private then there would be no need for private schools.

One can recognise that privilege as being one of many types of privilege in the world. I don't think there are so many "staggeringly ignorant" people on here.

😂😂😂
Angela Raynor is a very credible judge of school system

I've quoted multiple stats and research that shows state school kids outperform private at uni. Where are stats that say the opposite? I'm happy to be corrected - but I went through the research OP mentioned and it didn't say that at all

OP aso apparently has an FOI request for one year of Cambridge data - which isn't enough to draw any conclusions from, and for all we know OP could be lying

If that's for me the cap doesn't fit

My DC went to our local state comprehensive school which 'required improvement' through all the eldests time there. She didn't go to Hills or have a private tutor either.

I have no desire to 'game the system' I went to Oxbridge. It was fine. I don't care at all that my kids probably won't. Other universities exist. Come to that other paths in life exist. I literally only want them to be happy and past that I do not care at all.

I do wish that private schools were abolished because I think it would make state education better.

I have no doubt that all those kids at the 6 Oxbridge feeder independent schools are very bright (having gone to Oxbridge myself loads of my uni mates went to St Paul's, Windsor, Westminster and Eton and they are all very bright and successful) but the point is they are very bright AND very rich. There need to be the same opportunities for people who are very bright and very poor. Also it sounds frankly miserable to be hothoused through one of those super selective schools from a very young age. I see the casualties in my line of work quite often.

I think you mean schools AND postcodes, or being a carer, or a refugee, or a history of being a looked after child.

Bristol is probably the only uni where just being a state school pupil for A level is enough.

@shouldntbeonhereagain "It is not as binary as state Vs independent, the board wants to create and promote a.specific culture and balance.of background and outlook, irrespective of £. It may also be worth considering that staff will want to choose people they actively want to teach. Of course academic achievement and final degree grades are important, so is the process by which you come by your degree, and the experience you help to create as a student."

It is certainly as "binary as state vs independent" according to Cambridge University's access and participation plan. Staff "want to choose people they actively want to teach" - they want to teach fewer stusdents from private schools. It is written all over their access plans. Furthermore, it has nothing to do with improving the life chances of low SES applicants because that has its own targets.

And if their aim is to admit students who will enhance the student experience rather than excel academically, they should rewrite their prospectus.

I wasnt sure if it was postcode and or school. Quite a few private school parents move their kids to our school as it is rumoured to get contextual offers. It's a crazy move as universities aren't that stupid and putting spoon-fed kids into a struggling poor school isn't benefitting anyone.
But yes, unis offer contextual offers to the disabled, refugees and carers - as they should.

How are you teaching for so many hours? The school day isn't 10 hours long and kids aren't in on weekends.

What has Cambridge policy got to do with the left? Apart from the fact that the tory party is stuffed with people who were extensively coached to get into Oxbridge because their parents could afford it.

Where are you getting your figures from OP?

Send your kids to state then, OP. Easy fix.

@Hatfullofwillow

There is no point in citing old research when Cambridge University has been decreasing the ratio of private:state students year on year.

The university's exam data has shown a statistically significant difference for getting on for ten years and the 2020 paper delves into the factors behind it.

https://www.cao.cam.ac.uk/admissions-research/app-research-papers-2020
The one to look for (if you are interested) is: Analysis of student characteristics and attainment outcomes at the University of Cambridge

@Marchesman DD's tutorials are 2:1. She is now very careful about who she books in to do the tutorials with.

@Scandiviews1 "As Cambridge is still one of the top universities world wide presumably they are chosing the best people."

Don't presume, look at the data.