Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

and Finland subsidises parents who do chose fee paying schools.

If you like their model so much read this:
DI_The-Nordic-social-welfare-model.pdf (deloitte.com)

"Many public services and benefits in the Nordic countries are provided to the entire popu lation for free, or at a reduced price, independent of market mechanisms (see figure 4 on page 12). Free and equal access to these social services is the core universal principle of the Nordic model. Access is not based on the ability to pay, nor economic need."

" the size of public pensions in Norway, Sweden and Finland depends directly on how much the individual has earned and contributed to the pension system. "
"The Nordic countries all have employment rates above 70 per cent, and most land near the top of the list of OECD nations (figure 6 on page 13). Iceland and Sweden, in particular, stand out with employment at approximately 85 per cent and close to 80 per cent, respectively. "

"How do the Nordic countries achieve these high employment rates when they offer such generous social benefits, which are not limited to the poor? Why don’t more individuals simply take advantage of the broad social security net? The answer seems to lie in the gradually ‘tougher’ policies the Nordic countries have adopted, which increase incentives to work in various ways and balance the provision of social security. For instance, the unemployment benefit period has been progressively reduced, as has the amount of compensation"

The entire debate in Britain is about redistribution. In Nordic model EVERYONE pays in and EVERYONE get services, not means tested. Of course this leads to much more equal and fair society. But to try to move this way here we'd need to make all benefits (WFA, childcare, child support etc etc) non-means tested, increase taxes at the bottom and make UC time limited.

Are you up for this?

The Fordham institute is an American neocon think tank so I would take anything it produces with a pinch of salt.

I think the article I posted is a better starting point. There are several European counties with better quality or life, lower inequality, and far fewer kids in private schools.

I went to a Russell Group university. I remember my first essay being downgraded because I started the sentence with But instead of However. The campus was plastered with ads to proof read your work for £10 per 1000 words (that was some time ago). The trouble is I never had any spare money to do so.

Yes - I think the Nordic model is far superior to the UK. There are other ways to describe it beyond Deloitte’s

This is all you get out of it?

Do you realise that taxes have to be much higher for lower and middle earners and welfare has to become very time limited? And that PS parents would get their fees refunded by the way?

As to other way to describe it - can you give it a go? better than Deloitte?

And what is your point? that you didn't know not to start essay sentences with But?

But representative of Finnish equality …

Deloitte is just a consulting company, not an oracle. Yes, I’m confident I can explain it better but I’m not going to waste my time doing that just for you.

The Nordic model (and its German equivalent) produces better quality of life outcomes for more people than the current UK set up. There’s an abundance of evidence in favour of social democracy.

@Araminta1003 to support your point

The gap between Finland and UK is actually negligible and has reduced since 2018.

I fully agree with STEM being critical in modern world.
Does anyone remember the outrage when Sunak said that Math has to be taught till 18? that kids don't need it?😡

Perhaps you could find some actual numbers otherwise this is just bollocks

@HeavyMetalMaiden

you are embarrassing yourself.

I started typing response but there is no hope.

if say so lol.

you guys are trying to convince us that the UK has a better education, taxation and welfare system than Scandinavia and Germany. I don’t think there’s much credible data to support that if you care about quality of life across the whole population rather than just your own posho cohort.

I think it is you who have misunderstood. She is saying the Scandinavian model is better, and it is nothing like what you seem to be proposing.

I’m well aware of what it is and how it relates to what I am proposing.

Pity you haven't managed to communicate it.

I like the Deloitte quote
"The welfare model is not just about solidarity and must function in terms of both financing and delivery: a fairly shared tax burden, minimal misuse of provided benefits and efficient delivery"

Refreshing. If only we could achieve that here.

They mention universal benefits in there as an important part of the social contract.

I think that one really clean way to both reduce inequality and improve growth would be to have universal - ie not means tested - high quality, state-funded pre-school childcare.

The high cost of childcare causes such a huge distortion that it becomes impossible for professional single mothers to continue their careers and hard even for mid-earnng mothers in a couple. That's a huge long term cost to themselves and the UK, and appalling for gender inequality.

It also means that men get away with not supporting their children after separating, because the state must assume that they won't and so provides the support (at low income) instead. Whereas if there was universal childcare funded from general taxation then it could be assumed that everyone should work.

Everyone would be paying for the high cost of childhood equally - including absent fathers - spread out across their whole working life instead of concentrated in 5 -10 painful and career-destroying years.

Unfortunately anti-wealth, self-destructive attitudes in the UK mean that it would never be accepted that a new, valuable benefit should be universal. And it has to be universal, in order to work.

@strawberrybubblegum

100%

@nearlylovemyusername Private schools in Finland are free at point of use and can't make a profit. They account for 2.6% of education expenditure. There are a handful of actual private schools which cannot issue certificates.

British-style private education was abolished in Finland. So yes, I am all up for the Finnish model.

I’d be up for a bit of Janteloven too. Can’t see that happening in the UK though.

If it is a state school, it benefits from positive discrimination.

In this context it is unsurprising that you find "social justice" nauseating. The other way round, it would be a call to arms.

Its been "the other way round" for about 200 years though hasn't it!!! Didnt see any "call to arms" from the general population when those universities were dominated by public school pupils for years and years.

This whole thread is embarrassing. Hope you only voice these opinions amongst other like minded private school parents - its utterly cringe.

I think I have found the answer to my original question. I referred to it on the VAT on school fees thread. It transpires that VAT on private education and discrimination towards privately educated people on entry to higher education are both aspects of a programme to shrink the private sector in the expectation that this will reduce "educational equality". From Francis Green, Prof. (Creative Writing/or something), UCL IOE:

"Feasible reforms are of two kinds: those which would lower parental demand for private schooling, inducing enlargement of the state sector, and those which would directly integrate pupils from the state sector into currently private schools. Under the first of these, government could: Require universities (through funding leverage) to offer more strongly weighted preferential access to children from disadvantaged, and specifically non-private-school pupils – an intensification and targeting of current university access policies. The effect that such a policy would have on parental demand is hard to predict in advance."

Still, worth a try, eh?

ifs.org.uk/inequality/private-schools-and-inequality/

Not at all. The earliest records show only a 1.05 times advantage in the other direction - which wasn't significant when Parks analysed the data; which led him to advise against messing about with the system.

What ought to be embarrassing is the hypocrisy of the affluent middle class types who are busy hoarding privilege inside the state sector. But they lack the necessary self-awareness. Disgusting.

From Francis Green, Prof. (Creative Writing/or something), UCL

Do you mean Francis Green, physics degree from Oxford, economics masters from LSE and PhD from Birkbeck?

I guess you won’t enjoy the book he co-wrote with David Kynaston either.

What ought to be embarrassing is the hypocrisy of the affluent middle class types who are busy hoarding privilege inside the state sector. But they lack the necessary self-awareness. Disgusting.

That’s nice.

I think someone is definitely lacking self awareness.

I think someone is too lazy to read his research and check the references.

Whereas I think someone has found that their own hoarded privilege no longer counts for anything and is railing against society moving on.

Your comment about ‘Prof in Creative Writing or something’ is quite telling by the way.