Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

You are assuming that I was assuming that.

If you look again, you will see that I was responding to a point about "highly privileged" children. Which, given what we know about their socioeconomic status, is what you would have to call most Oxbridge students, regardless of the school type that they came from.

As a side issue, since you brought it up, there is a correlation between SES and gratification delay, so had I been referring to poor children it would have been very easy to justify it. As a side side issue, my maternal grandfather was a shipyard chargehand, and my paternal grandfather was a labourer in a dog food factory, if that is a place of privilege mea culpa.

Some real life news - I mentioned a few times on MN that my close friend has DC at one of the top league London PS. She's back from parents evening. Her DC year group will be applying to unis this year. Over 70% aren't even bothering with UK anymore. They travelled to US over summer hols, visited several unis and will be applying there.

She's saying that Ivy League start before A-level results released means these kids will be gone before they'd even get places here. (Disclaimer - I know nothing about US admissions so if this is incorrect please don't bully me, I'm repeating what I've heard).

This school has 85% of A-A* . True that some share of pupils belong to international community, but significant proportion are British. These kids learning that they aren't desirable here and going abroad is tremendous loss and brain drain for the country.

So far, no one has explained why they think this is a good idea.

Do they think that the next best thing to banning private schools, would be for all of their alumni to leave the country?

Nice anecdote! I think Cambridge will be fine.

Brain drain 😀. I think we will struggle through this nightmare

@TheaBrandt

Sure about that?

There are three times as many British students (undergraduates and postgraduates) abroad as there are now at Cambridge university. The number at American universities has increased by 25% in the last ten years.

Maybe I missed it, but why is it a good idea for our best students to decamp?

It does reduce the competition for university places and jobs of course. So if you have a view that the economy (and job availability) is static, and all that matters is how a fixed amount of wealth is distributed each year, then you would consider this a good thing. Or at least unimportant.

If you notice day-to-day quite how much difference in productivity/achievement is a result of how capable a small number of individuals are, and you are able to stretch your imagination to realise that the economy is made up of many individuals doing however much they do, then you would worry.

It is a global economy now whether we like it or not. This is a TINY group of people they are just magnified in your eyes as being the “best” because they are the children of the wealthy. I wouldn’t lose sleep about it there will be many other exceptional students available to take their places.

The total numbers of privately schooled kids choosing US over UK remains very small indeed though. Plus, the number heading to the US specifically because they didn’t get an Oxbridge offer that once would have been made to them but went instead to a state educated kid educated is minuscule.

There is no ‘brain drain’ worth giving a toss about.

Absolutely. It seems half the posters on this thread live in such a rarified world that they believe a few kids going to the US constitutes some phenomenon anyone else should care about.

True. It’s state educated kids of 1st gen migrants (usually Indian) who tend to opt for US / Indian universities as they can usually apply scholarships making it much cheaper than the UK. Private school kids are more likely to go to Europe

Comprehension is such a critical skill and so frequently missing.

These kids don't even bother trying to apply in the UK anymore.

Appreciate it's not important for you because they are from wealthier backgrounds.

Then read this:

London pupils win 'life changing' scholarships to top US universities | Evening Standard

They turned down Oxbridge as well. Wonder why?

We need an economy that hinges less on the parasitic actions of a small number of privately educated ‘elites’ though.

Explain how they are “parasites” please.

@EmpressoftheMundane

Thank you for asking that, it's exactly what I would like to know.

OK. Enjoy your brave new world.
Socialist utopias always end well.

How many are there of ‘these kids’ who don’t bother to apply on the UK any more?

You shared an article about three exceptional kids going to the US, good for them. What is it we are supposed to comprehend?

Right?🙄

We are several years post-graduation and our children are clearly much happier than average - because they have good jobs and prospects.

Maybe these particular children are keen to fly further from the nest. I know it’s selfish but I hope mine remain a little closer to me.

Don’t threaten me with a good time!

I love your catastrophising. VAT on private school fees is now the inevitable installation of socialism by checks notes notorious socialist Keir Starmer.

What? Having good jobs and prospects is not incompatible with staying close to your family.

@DadJoke

Not VAT on private schools. That's not what this thread is about.

It's the minimising of intellectual ability - dismissing it as not relevant, useful for society, or worth nurturing - which I think bodes badly for our future society.

A example being an elite University favouring social engineering ahead of attainment. (What this thread is about)

And another example being the minimisation of the contribution which some of the most capable young people in the UK could have made to the UK if they had stayed (A consequence of the social engineering this thread is about)

A "tiny group of people"? You mean like the substantially tinier group of people who go to Oxford and Cambridge who are perceived to be so much of a problem that all of this nonsense was felt to be essential twelve years ago?

Whom the universities are only able to replace by lowering their standards?

But, er... bigger?

The “British” students going overseas (instead of Top Uk Unis) are, in part, being replaced at Top UK Unis by overseas students who pay fees which are multiplies of UK student fees. Attractive to uni.

So, the Uni places available due to UK students fleeing to US don’t necessarily get allocated to UK locals.

Yes, those overseas pupils might (probably) have been privately educated in UK, or home country.

Some of the top UK Unis have up to 70% overseas pupils. This seems to me to be a big reason why UK pupils are not gaining admission. IMO.