Cambridge University discriminates against children from private schools.

[Marchesman]

MN threads persist in claiming that Oxford and Cambridge Universities do not discriminate against private schools. Now two "academics" have written a half-baked book that argues for further reductions in the number of Oxbridge students from private schools (to 10% of the intake).

In 2023 at Cambridge 19.9% of students from comprehensive schools obtained first class degrees (23.5% from grammar schools) compared with 28.6% from private schools - evidence of unequivocal discrimination against the latter at the point of entry.

Cambridge's own analysis shows that British state-educated students already significantly underperform relative to foreign and privately educated British students. If more of the latter are excluded, the inevitable outcome will be that at these universities the best students are foreign, while the best British pupils decamp to US universities.

Is this really what the Left wants? If so why?

@HeavyMetalMaiden - clearly your moral values do not extend to basic levels of courtesy towards others on social media.

Perhaps, like me, they just didn't want to?

Perhaps they have moral objections?
Perhaps they think that private education is a waste of money?
Perhaps they are confident that their kids will thrive and succeed in any environment?
Perhaps they are confident in their own ability to fill in any gaps that state education might leave?
Perhaps they want their dc to be exposed to a broader cross section of society?
Perhaps they don't like the values and attitudes that their local private schools cultivate?
Perhaps they think there are better ways of investing in their dc's futures?

Minty - my apologies if my proletarian verbiage doesn’t jive with some rarified style of chat you prefer.

This study demonstrates many PS parents certainly believe PS confers an advantage:

https://www.llakes.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/RP-62.-Green-Anders-Henderson-Henseke.pdf

And so it seems somewhat strange to me that if no perceived actual advantage was accrued that people would continue to send children to private school. Logically it suggests they are making a poor decision.

Are there as my countries that have abolished private schools?

I would be interested to know if there are, why they have abolished - info about national ideology that would be anti-education?

I can imagine communist-era type crackdowns last century. When they executed intellectual and teachers ..

Any this century … North Korea … though Kim Jung Un rumored to have been privately educated in Switzerland.

Does anyone know?

Those findings are interesting. Particularly the social engineering that so many respondents tried to mask, or justify in other ways after the fact.

Yeah - anyone who wishes to curtail the purchasing of unfair advantage is a red!!!

There are a number of much more successful societies in Europe than Britain as measured by a bunch of quality of life metrics that have far lower participation in private schooling.

You might try reading ‘The Spirit Level’ or any number of books on the downsides of too much inequality.

“Indeed. I could afford to send my DC to a private school but I choose not to because I wish to see them abolished.“

@HeavyMetalMaiden - this stinks of inverse snobbery and accumulated cultural capital!

I am far more interested in high inter-generational income mobility (than Oxbridge participation rates). Now there is something that actually matters.

Do you understand that people are entitled to hold different views from you?

It’s not inverse snobbery to believe that private education perpetuates inequality to the detriment of society as a whole.

I’m not sure what you mean by accumulated cultural capital in this context.

What I understand is that calling for the abolition of any schools is intolerant. And certainly does not represent any type of moral high ground. And where it is couched in verbiose language on top of that and linked to studies, it’s frankly ridiculous. Perpetuating elite academic thinking whilst simultaneously calling for abolition of high educational standards is digging your own grave.

Let’s kill the economy and increase unrmployment!
Together independent schools contribute £16.5 billion to the UK economy, supporting 328,000 jobs and £5.1 billion in tax revenues. And the sector saves the government £4.4 billion every year by educating pupils who would otherwise take up a place in state-funded schools.

What's difficult is that 'private school' is not one big homogeneous lump. What you get from Eton and Winchester is very different from what you get from the local selective school round me which is much more like a grammar with funds, or the small private primary in the next town which specialises in children with dyslexia. I doubt many of its former pupils are going to Oxbridge.

But at the moment, if you go to a private school, you are three times more likely to get into Oxbridge than if you go to a state school. So no, that's not a disadvantage; and if you refined that to the top 15 schools the advantage would be even higher.

To add further anecdata to the fire, also lots of v bright N London children of my acquaintance don't want to go to Oxbridge because they think it will be too intense and full of tossers. In which - judging by my experience coming from a comp to Cambridge - they may well be right.

I assume you are going to donate that money saved to charity rather than give it to your children to help them get on the housing ladder for instance? Because helping your children onto the housing ladder is far far more advantageous than private school.

It stems from having spent time in academia studying the causes and effects of inequality while comparing Britain with other nations with lower rates of private schooling.

You might find this book interesting: www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838

Source: Independent Schools Council website ;)

I think the economy will be fine. After all, the product of our best public schools have been giving it a much worse kicking in terms of how it impacts most ordinary folk for years.

Loving Dan’s one -star review:
Might appeal to Marxists...
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 13 March 2022
This book was poorly written and could have done with a going over by someone of superior education such as myself before publication. This book is nothing but an attack on the better few percent by Marxist agitators hellbent on the destruction of Western civilisation. It appears to be a trend these days. I've read many books aimed at SJW types just out of amusement and I have to say it is no wonder the hatred of White European men has increased with such intensity. We are blamed for everything that goes wrong in the Leftist's mind, for they have no sense of self responsibility, it is always someone else's fault. Alas, this is the society we now find ourselves with and it will get worse with time; people with long for the better days of times past.

Tut tut. Cutting and pasting some random’s review without formulating one’s own opinion. No gold star for you.

I'm from Cambridge I have never once ever thought what this place needs is more privately educated students. Panic over everyone, there is no shortage.

Out of interest what is this ‘accumulated cultural capital’ you believe I have.

Are you per chance drawing here from the work of Bourdieu?

Didn’t SAY it was my view did I?, just said I loved Dan’s One star. Tut tut for you for jumping to false conclusions …. Again

JumpinJellyfish asked me why people choose private schools. In return I asked why wealthy people choose state schools.

The answer that I got was: "I’m sure there are lots of reasons and I’m not sure why there is any point in me speculating. Not all rich people send their children to private school but all of those whose kids are in private (except those in receipt of bursaries) are rich."

But there is (evidently) a point in speculating why people choose private schools; and if a suitable answer is not forthcoming then an educationalist is always on hand to make one up.

The authors of the paper discussed at length on page 11 believe that a desire for a general quality of education masks "preferences for a certain social composition". Green, F., Anders, J. Henderson, M. and Henseke, G. (2017) Who Chooses Private Schooling in Britain and Why?

Coincidentally the source of the "40% stat".

References to prove a lack of conferred advantage, and that pupils in private schools are not all from "rich" families are found earlier in the thread.

You're spot on, Kim Jung Un was indeed educated in Switzerland.

And communist USSR only had one type of schools, no private, faith schools, all kids across the entire country used exactly the same textbooks, teachers used exactly the same lessons plan issued by government, no setting, perfect equality, children of CIOs were in the same class with kids of cleaners. Educational outcomes were still vastly different - all dependant on parental level of education and cultural capital. I studied this area in depths.

much appricated for this

This argument aligns with theories of social stratification and education, which propose that schooling decisions are often made with the goal of maintaining or enhancing social capital. In this sense, private education is not just an academic investment but also a social one, ensuring access to networks and environments that align with certain class-based preferences.

I read the entirety of the paper you discussed on page 11 and a couple of others mentioned in the lit review.

It would interesting to see whether private school confers advantage not only in terms of attending RG unis as a whole, but a more select group of unis which most significantly over-index on private school attendees.

If we accept that private schooling confers no advantage (although I remain highly skeptical despite this paper and would like to see more work in this area), then the entire sector offers extraordinarily poor value for money.