NC levels. Is 1 sub level progress ever OK?

[seeker]

I know that 2 sub-levels of progress is what's expected. Are there any circumstances in which it's OK for a normally bright child who hasn't had anything traumatic happen to him and who appears to have had a normal sort of year to only make 1 sub level of progress?

seeker - Were you reported the test level or continuous assessment level then?

I don't think you'd know whether or not it was going on even though you're a governor. It's an unspoken policy I'm afraid.

But not as important as the work that they do from day to day.

It isn't at all in line with end of KS1 assessment - which must be collated using lots of different kinds of evidence to give a fuller picture, not just a one-sided view. It's more evolved than giving a small child a narrow test, and gives much more information aout their attainment. See Building a Picture of What Children Can Do.

Year 6 also requires the reporting of teacher assessment, which has 50% weighting against the tests. So teacher assessment remains very important throughout the whole of a child's primary education, along with some testing. But it isn't the be all and end all, and nor should it be.

Most GCSEs have coursework attached to them, which can be likened to teacher assessment.

The few schools who only report a test result will use their wealth of teacher assessment alongside their test data to track underperformance, plan interventions, plan next steps in learning, etc. So why hide it from parents?

I understand that it isn't statutory to report any test data at all until Y6, and that teacher assessment must be reported in Y2 and Y6 - but if you are going to report anything at all to parents in the other years, why choose something that is such a small part of their learning and the tracking done at school?

In what way is coursework like teacher assessment?

In that it doesn't take place under exam conditions, and the marking is moderated.

I understand that it isn't statutory to report any test data at all until Y6, and that teacher assessment must be reported in Y2 and Y6 - but if you are going to report anything at all to parents in the other years, why choose something that is such a small part of their learning and the tracking done at school?

I agree Feenie but certainly in my school the test scores carry more weight so a lot of teaching to the test still happens sadly. You'll stuggle to find many teachers who think a one-off test score is accurate and most will prefer continuous assessment.

Of course it isn't accurate! I'm sorry it's still like that in your school - it's hard to justify after the changes in KS1 assessment years ago.

I'm going to talk to his teacher this afternoon - I'll let you know what she says!

What did she say, seeker?

She said that he did a near perfect test - and on the strength of the test and his class work she considered giving him 4As. But she doesn't think that it would be good for him to go into year 5 on a 4A - it would be too easy for him to coast and for his teacher to let him coast. She reckoned that a 4b means that he has something to aim for. So she marked hard and came up with a 4b. Not sure I understand - or am convinced. Need to think about it further.

So much for objective testing...

This sounds a bit like the conversation I had with DS teacher. She said, well 4a is the most they can get in year 4, but in year 5, we are allowed to mark them higher, so he'll be expected to get a 5 next year.

But he is already capable of a 5, so if she thinks we'll be pleased with a 5c in a year's time she is making a big mistake.

I know the scores are only a snapshot, opinion, teachers assessment etc. but if the school wilfully lies about them, then what is the bl**dy point?

She wasn't actually lying about it - she just said she marked the very able ones harder because she expected more of them. She also said that they aren't allowed to set year 4s sthe "next test up" becuae the content could be inappropriate for their age group.

Innapropriate content! We're talking Optional SATs papers here, not Playboy! The Yr 5 Optional Reading Sats is all about dragonflies and carnivals, neither particularly racey topics I wouldn't have thought! She is talking rubbish

And why isn't she using teacher assessment anyway, seeker? What about the level of work which she sets him and his next steps - is she going to cap those at a 4b/4a too?

4a is the most they can get in the Y4 test, but is not the most they can get in a teacher assessment, or the most their work should be set at. Ridiculous.

You know, this is such an eye-opener for me! If I, a middle aged, educated, articulate person with no worries about confronting authority figures can find this so hard, what the hell chance of most of the parents at the school have of finding out what's going on with thie children?

My DD1 is yr4. Her maths group was told after easter hols that they had achieved level 4B and would not be able to progress any further this year . This has seemed to happen every year at easter, she achieves a certain level then spends a term coasting.
I have given up caring about how they assess her. She now goes to a tutor for 11plus work and is able to work to her ability and loves it. Just a shame have to spend £20 a week to get her the attention she deserves.
Schools attitude is she will achieve level 5 in yr6 so why worry
Really did not appreciate becoming a parent would mean we have to fight so hard to get the education our children deserve

I know this happens at our school, but officially it doesn't. I've been told (off the record) by a teacher that they're not allowed to assess at level 4 in Y3 any more, for example, because of the value add. I told DH at the start of this year what levels DS2 would get on his report at the end of the year, and lo, it has come to pass.

I don't actually believe the levels reported of him - I think he's higher in at least a couple of areas. He is doing work at a higher level too.

Singersgirl, at least your DS is doing the higher level work. My DS (and several others in his group) just complete the easy stuff, then sit there chatting. It mortifies me to think he and his mates are allowed to distract other children because the teachers won't give the top group harder work. (ot simply force them to sit in silence)
From comparing notes with a few other mums, the range of grades in his maths class (which is the top half of the two form year) goes from his 4a (5 really!) down to 2b. So it ranges from an average 7yo to an average 11yo. I do have some sympathy for the teachers, but I get fed up of hearing about different work for different tables, as in my experience, for maths it just isn't happening.

Singersgirl, at least your DS is doing the higher level work. My DS (and several others in his group) just complete the easy stuff, then sit there chatting. It mortifies me to think he and his mates are allowed to distract other children because the teachers won't give the top group harder work. (ot simply force them to sit in silence)
From comparing notes with a few other mums, the range of grades in his maths class (which is the top half of the two form year) goes from his 4a (5 really!) down to 2b. So it ranges from an average 7yo to an average 11yo. I do have some sympathy for the teachers, but I get fed up of hearing about different work for different tables, as in my experience, for maths it just isn't happening.

Sorry for double post.

That range is nothing really, my yr 5's go from a 6b to a 2c in maths and from a 5A to a 1A in reading and I only have 11 of them! So sorry, but you need to go and have a discussion with the class teacher about what will be done to ensure your child achieves their full potential THIS YEAR and if you are not happy with the answer you get, talk to the Head.

My ds's year 4 class has P scales to 4A - I really take my hat off to teachers - even though I complain about them!

primarymum.. Yes the range is not that amazing, but it does mean the teachers need to provide differing work for them. Obviously you are doing that in your class, but our school seems not do it for numeracy.
It is generally a good school, and I am happy with it on the whole, but I think they feel that for maths, "setting" across the year is enough differentiation.
Since receiving DS annual report, I have used the feedback form to make a formal response, and should get a reply in the next couple of days. But last year I had the same sort of conversation and was assured that maths work would be set appropriately. It hasn't been.
Funnily enough, I suspect some children would have the same issues with literacy work. (DS is in top group, but nowhere near as able as some of the others). However, with literacy, the able ones will tend to write more and better of their own accord, whereas with maths, (working off a lot of worksheets) the tendency is to do the sums and then stop. I wish they'd provide more open-ended stuff in maths. At home, DS will just work things out for himself, but in school the temptation to chat is too much for a bunch of 9yos.

We are condidering setting across Key Stage 2 for maths ( not as bad as it sounds, we only have 2 mixed age classes and 53 children between them which we will be able to split into 3 classes for maths-the Head will teach one.)I will take a Top set of 23 so that means my range should shrink to those children working from a 3B to a 6B. However I will still have 4 differentiated groups in this set, all will need work appropriate to their needs ( and my two level 6 children will need extension and enrichment work on top of that!). Setting across a year or even more is no excuse for not differentiating further, ALL children need to have work set which stretches them, not some mythical "average child" So keep plugging away at your DS teacher, she/he needs to get it right!

We have setting from year 4 - which has worked well. But there's a new Head starting in September who doesn't like setting, so we will see what happens then!