Any advice on Primary School Admission Appeals

[nojopo]

Our DS didn't get into our first or second choice school. There isn't a decent third near us ! We are appealing as a neighbour's child was offered a place at our second choice even though we live equidistant to the school.The computerised system puts them closer to the school incorrectly. Anyone have any experience than can help ? Am terrified by what will happen if we fail... Feeling I've failed him already

There are a few with experience of appeals who will be along I'm sure, but just so you don't get your hopes up it may well be that your neighbours house is nearer than yours. Normally the central point of a house on the local authority street plans is used as the starting point, so their's may be nearer, maybe a matter of an inch or two, but still nearer. You must be top fo the list though?

They are saying the other house is 22 metres closer which is so wrong.. Only at number 6 on the list and have been as low as 8 - people move in to the area and we get leapfrogged..

If there is definitely less than 22 metres between the middle of your house and the middleof your neighbours (assuming straight-line distance is the tie-break), and assuming your neighbour got in becuase of distance then you have a very good chance as it would appear that the admissions criteria have not been applied correctly.

Have they used the right house? Maybe they used number 8 and you're number 18?

I've been thro it all with the Head of Admissions. They have the right houses and refuse to listen to the fact the distance is wrong (in fact we are roughly 2 paces closer when i measure it) as the computer says otherwise. It's two straight lines safe walking distance meeting at a crossroads when the other house has to cross to our side of the road so so simple to calculate. Sigh. We have always been within the boundary for school admission in previous years its sooooo frustrating and am terrified of what we do if we don't win the appeal. Have refused a place at the awful school they allocated to DS and even looking around at private schools in the area as a short term measure we are too late to apply and get in....Hopefully sense will prevail but.....

How was the distance measured - straight line (ie as the crow flies, usually measured from the middle of your home to a fixed point in the school) or safe walking route? You seem to be saying both but it must be one or the other.

With the appeal papers, you should receive a statement of the distance at which the last place was awarded. If you live closer than that, you should win the appeal (and if the LEA has made a mistake, they ought to correct it even before the appeal stage, although many do seem to insist on taking it all before an appeal panel). You should also receive a map showing how the distance has been measured so again you should be able to spot any error (I have heard appeals where the LEA pinpointed the wrong house as the child's home, for example). However, you will need to have a stronger argument than "I measured it myself with a trundle wheel/Google map/pacing it out" as the computerised systems which LEAs use are used for every application and they can't/won't agree to use some other system for one application. So you need to show that there has been some error - pinpointing the wrong house, ignoring a footpath if using safest walking route etc.

Is this an infant class size appeal (ie classes are multiples of 30)? If so, the bar is set very high as you have to demonstrate that there has been some serious error which has deprived your child of a place. If it isn't, you have more scope to argue why your child should be admitted to the school.

Refusing the school place you've been offered will not help you win your appeal. You need to have a Plan B in case your appeal does not succeed. What other local schools have vacancies?

Hello , its measured as safe walking distance and we have measured it ourselves as is such a small difference in journey between the two houses is easy to pace it out.
They've sent us the map of our route but aren't allowed to send us the map for our neighbour (who i don't know! I found out thro a mutual friend that they'd got in). I've asked if someone from the appeals panel will come round to see the obviousness of the distances involved to the point where the walking routes meet as we are 3 houses one way , they are 3 houses another way so it so simple to demonstrate they are not 22 metres closer.

Yes this is for reception class. The calculation has to be wrong tho - it's 50 vs 52 paces - it so isn't 22 metres difference ! Have thought of filming myself walking the two routes if they won't visit us but ...

The school they offered isn't somewhere I'd be happy leaving DS at - its got a terrible rep. We've not got a plan b yet - have got him on the waiting list for a 3rd school but was 1st in the waiting list when requested and ended up at 6th within the fortnight.

Appeal panels don't do site visits, although someone from the LEA admissions team may do if the distance can't for some reason be plotted on the computer (this happened in my LEA once, when an address just didn't feature on the electronic map so the admissions officer had to go out to plot it by hand).

I appreciate how much this means to you, but you need to address the issue that the panel won't be able to accept do-it-yourself measurements in place of the LEA's. Anyway, how did you measure it? Can you be absolutely certain that you started from the identical spot that the LEA uses as its datum point and then followed the same walking route? If you are measuring by counting the number of paces, that is a very rough and ready way of calculating distance and I'd be amazed if the panel accepted it.

Some LEAs will provide a list of all the applications (giving addresses but not names) and the distance at which each was measured. That might be your best chance of checking the distance at which you and your neighbour were measured. But you also need to bear in mind that your neighbour's child may have been admitted under some other heading (sibling/social or medical need) and your mutual friend would not necessarily be privy to that.

Hello,
the houses are so close there is only one route that can be taken from each to the point where the route to school becomes shared and it is literally approx 50 paces to this point from each house so no way can their measurements be correct.They have given us the other house distance to school measurement and have confirmed there are no other circumstances that would have put the child ahead of mine other than the system says they live 22 metres closer. It's so frustrating.

As Panelmember says, unless there is something obviously wrong with the measurement the panel is very unlikely to accept that the computerised measuring system is wrong. These systems are very accurate.

I note you say "the other house has to cross to our side of the road". The computerised system almost certainly measures up the middle of the road, so the routes would meet in the middle of the crossroads, making the route from your house a little longer than you think, and possibly shortening the route from the other house a little too. Also, unless the council has confirmed the route used for the other house it is possible that the routes don't meet at the crossroads as you assume. It may be that there is an obscure footpath which gives them a shorter route.

Whatever the reason for the discrepancy in distances, I'm afraid it is unlikely you will persuade the appeal panel that you are right unless the LA admit they've got it wrong or you persuade them to provide a map which shows a clear error regarding the other house (e.g. they've measured from the wrong house). As they've given you the distance to school for the other house, I can't really see why they won't give you the map showing the route. It might be worth pushing them on that. However, if they've measured from the right house and have used the correct route from both houses, they will be right about the difference in distances regardless of what you think when you pace it out.

I'm sorry. I know this isn't what you want to hear.

There are no obscure footpaths and the criteria is safest walking distance so I assume from that they should measure by footpaths not from middle of road or am I wrong ? Even if this is the case there can't be a 22 m difference we're talking 3 houses difference from. Each address . Sorry to bang on about this but if they quote safest walking distance we are no where near 22 metres further away.

Then this is what you're going to have to probe at the appeal.

Our LEA uses straight line measurements, but my understanding is that (as prh47bridge suggests) when the safe walking route is along a particular road, the computer plots the distance as if walking along the middle of the road rather than on one pavement or the other.

It may be a waste of time to fixate on the other child who was offered the place - it may be that their distance was measured wrongly (in which case the place won't be withdrawn) but yours was measured correctly, in which case you're no further forward. If you're convinced your distance was measured wrongly, it may be better to focus on whether the correct measurement would have put you within the range at which places were offered this year.

Again, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but to win an infant class size appeal you have to focus on the very few grounds on which such appeals are winnable.

Appreciate the advice.

Yes, GIS systems generally measure walking distances along the middle of the road. They also don't cut corners the way we tend to when walking.

Another issue is where on the property they start measuring. If one property extends further back from the road than the other that can affect the measurement. However, I agree that none of this is likely to add up to 22 metres in most cases. However, as panel member says, fixating on this distance probably won't get us anywhere.

The crucial question is whether this is an infant class size appeal. What is the admission number at this school? If it isn't an infant class size appeal it may still be possible to put together a winning case.

This is for reception admission with 2 classes of 30 each in the intake. So how should i measure ? From my front door or the middle of the road outside my house ? We probably measure v similar distances from road as both are London terraced houses. We live 3 houses up a right hand turn off the road they live on. They are 3 houses further up the road. Hence how close the distance involved is...

I would say the distance between the two if measured from the middle of the house, and using the middle of the road, particularly if they are one side of the road and you are another coudl well be 22 metres... If each house is roughly 5 metres in width, that's 15 metres already. Add to that the distance involved in getting you to the middle of the road and turning the corner may well end up being the extra 7 metres. It's really not that big a difference.

How you measure depends on what the LA say in their admission criteria. That should specify how distances are measured. Some LAs measure from the gate, some go from the centre of the property.

You are unlikely to show that the GIS measurement is wrong. Any alternative method such as a trundle wheel is inherently less accurate. Your best chance of showing that the measurement is wrong is if they have measured from the wrong house or there is a shorter walking route than the one they have used.

As there are 30 children in each class in reception this will be an infant class size case. That means you will only win if you can show that the LA has made a mistake. You may be lucky and get a sympathetic panel but your chances of success are low. Sorry.

At least I can now ask for clarity in how they measure and be prepared in advance. Away at the moment but once I know this can see if our measurements seem correct or not.