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Primary education

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Original poster

WTF - school is using RE to morally instruct my daughter

22 replies

JJ6 · 02/07/2010 22:05

The whole family are aetheists and daughter attends a state (non religeous - thats a laugh)inner city primary. Tecaher knows we are aetheists and are happy for daughter to learn about world religions but not be taught that beliefs or bible stories are fact.
We received her report today and quote:
'RE - Re teaches how to love, care and show tolerance for others. X is benefiting from these moral instructions" DISCUSS....

Am I right in thinking that there is a bit of a dig at our family values here. Can my daughter not learm about these things outside the framework of organised belief systems? Should I challenge or complain about this??

OP posts:

Hassled · 02/07/2010 22:09

Well it is certainly a very odd thing to put in a report. What the teacher probably meant was something quite bland - they've discussed themes like tolerance which crop up in a number of religions, and your DD has enjoyed/contributed to the discussions. It probably really is meant as something as generic as that.

But certainly ask for clarification. I think you're putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 653 re the dig at your family values, though - many people are atheists; it's not like announcing you're a family of Jedi.

Original poster

JJ6 · 02/07/2010 22:24

Thanks Hassled for the reassurance. The thing is although in the UK many people are aetheistis in an inner city multi cultural school this is not the case (my daughters class has 16 nationalities) we are in the minority (and I include the teaching staff in this) in the school. We are the only family who do not subscribe to religeon in my daughters class so I do feel a little bit concerned about this comment. However teacher is not English (although her spoken English is good and she is a fantastic teacher so maybe something was lost in translation). I still feel there is something incidous underlying the thoughts.

OP posts:

Feenie · 02/07/2010 22:28

atheist

Sorry.

jemart · 02/07/2010 22:35

Oh, get over yourself.

Shallishanti · 02/07/2010 22:41

I would be more concerned about the teacher's ability to express herself in writing tbh, I think it's very unlikely she intended what you have read into it, she's just worded a meant to be bland statement clumsily.
FWIW we are humanists and 3 older dcs went to CofE high school, can recite lords prayer and grace but came through intact. It's annoying but don't lose sleep over it.

wrinklyraisin · 02/07/2010 22:47

I could be wrong, but I read it more as being a positive comment. It's so hard for teachers to do right thesedays, everything is so uber PC and there's always offence or criticism to be found in everything they say. I think she is basically saying your daughter is getting a lot out of the class and it's not a personal dig at your family as atheists. IMHO love, tolerance, caring for others are not unique to religion, and morality is tied into religion and philosophy so I can see why these topics would be taught in RE. I would talk to your daughter and get her view on what she's learning. If she is happy, and feels no kind of personal digs by the teacher, it's probably more likely a poor word choice by the teacher.

Feenie · 02/07/2010 23:10

Was that directed at me, jemart?

Original poster

JJ6 · 02/07/2010 23:15

Actually I am a member of the Atheistis we study Atheists in their native habitat and write research reports for the journal 'Aetheists today' please join us and ensure that Aetheists are protected and given a habitat they can survive in and flourish.

OP posts:

GiddyPickle · 02/07/2010 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

booyhoo · 02/07/2010 23:28

surely the report should have said how your DD was getting on her RE class, i.e; meeting deadlines, understanding topics, producing good work that reflects what she has been taught. i acnt help thinking that wass a bit of a dig aswell OP. i would ask the teacher to provide an accurate report on how your DD is doing in the class, not what they hope to instil in her.

Original poster

JJ6 · 02/07/2010 23:35

booyhoo - she is 6 so I am not too worried about deadlines.

OP posts:

frogs · 02/07/2010 23:35

It's a bunch of phrases picked from a statement bank. Don't read too much into it.

PixieOnaLeaf · 02/07/2010 23:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Helokitty · 03/07/2010 00:32

This is probably not a dig, but I suspect (although not knowing the full context of the report - it is a best guess) that they are referring to the AT2 of religion.

RS teaching has two aims that teaching should be included:

AT1 - This is the learning about religion - so it is the learning facts about religion, like Muslims worship one God called Allah, that sort of thing.

AT2 - This is the learning from religion. This is the idea that we can all learn from other people, and religions too. Even if you are not religious, you may learn something like for example, the "golden rule" within Christianity. You do not have to be a Christian to appreciate Jesus' teaching of 'treat other people how you would like to be treated'.

I suspect the report you mention is referring to how your DD has developed her AT2 skills in RS.

Also, agree with the Previous posters who state that your daughter is not in a secular school - there are no such things in this country. If you object to RS / collective worship, you need to withdraw your child from them, otherwise it is a legal obligation for the school to provide them.
HTH

Just13moreyearstogo · 03/07/2010 00:42

Agree with frogs. Don't think it was a dig at you in any way.

differentnameforthis · 03/07/2010 00:58

As I said on the other thread

"love, care and show tolerance for others" is not within the framework of organised beliefs.

They are important life skills. They are taught to the class as a whole, your daughter isn't being singled out.

I doubt they are doing it as a dig to your family values & I don't think they will harm your family values, unless your values mean that she is to "hate, not care about & be intolerant of other"

distraughtmum56 · 03/07/2010 01:59

love and care for others? even total atheists accept that, other than psychopaths and all-round selfish arseholes.

it's not like they're being taught moral views on abortion, sex, alcohol/drugs or other controversial issues.
if this was an AIBU thread, definitely YABU!

Original poster

JJ6 · 03/07/2010 02:13

Sigh....
It is not the morals being taught that are the issue it is the fact that RE (religeon) is used as the guardian of morals. PSHE should cover this and also am not fond of the term 'moral instruction'.

OP posts:

Tortington · 03/07/2010 02:54

oh i thought it was the in between the lines comment of how your child could benefit fromt he discussions. - if thats the case then tell em to fuck the fuck off.

ICantFindAGoodNickname · 03/07/2010 05:51

I don't think it was a personal attack on you but I agree with you that morals should be instructed separately from Religion.

We need to fight this on a nationwide scale though, as unfortunately your school is most likely just fulfilling their legal obligations.

Instead I would urge you to join the Humanitarian Society and support them in their push for secular schooling. We need to have our lobbyists in place putting forward the secular point of view because the churches are well organised and have their fair share of lobbyists fighting to at the very least maintain the status quo.

cory · 03/07/2010 10:22

Agree about the statement bank. "Enjoyed X subject" is code for "has been present at X lessons but there isn't really anything more to say about it". Which I have found is often another way of saying "finds X subject a total waste of time". Oh well.

Dd got an A in Attitude for PE this year. Due to disability, she has not taken part in a PE lesson for several years. She clearly feels very positive about this situation

And fwiw, RE doesn't have to be learning morals from religion. It can be about discussing ethics more in general. And discussions about world views can include atheism and humanism.

Helokitty · 03/07/2010 10:31

"fwiw, RE doesn't have to be learning morals from religion. It can be about discussing ethics more in general. And discussions about world views can include atheism and humanism."

That depends on your SACRE. As an RS teacher, I've taught in 3 LEAs, under 3 different SACREs (the organising bodies who draw up the RE syllabus for the local schools). Two of these SACREs included humanism and atheism, one did not.

Personally, I think Atheism and Humanism should be covered in RS, because the whole point of RS is to explore the range of religious beliefs and to see what we can learn about them and from them. I think this cannot be done without exploring the ideas from atheism, agnosticism and humanism too. But that's just my view. If it is something you feel strongly about, why not see if you can join your local SACRE. It is made up from RS teachers, representatives from all the main religions and members of the local community, to ensure everyone agrees with what is taught. Does your SACRE include humanists? If not, if you are one - why not see if you can join them?

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