Further advice on reception place withdrawn

[sj2010]

Hi All,

I wrote previously about my son whose place in reception was withdrawn after 6 weeks due to technical error in the Admission Services Department.I wrote to Admission manager and the Childrens Services Director as suggested by admission and pr47bridge that the place cannot be withdrawn according to 1.50 of Admission Code and case 99C01876.
After 10 days, I got a reply saying- in order to comply with the published admission criteria and the Code of Practice,the Local Education Authority decided to withdraw the places offered in error and reoffer.Para 1.50 places no prohibition on withdrawing a place due to administrative error and the case referred to in your letter supports the view that failure to follow the admission policy is maladministration.
I would like your advise on this Section 1.50 and what they(Admission Services) are saying is correct or not.I have sent my appeal papers.

Thanks..

They are talking rubbish.

Paragraph 1.50 is quite clear that there are only very limited circumstances in which an offer can be withdrawn. The LGO case referred to made it clear that there is only a very limited timeframe in which it is possible to withdraw an offer made in error - less than 3 days. As long as the appeal panel understand the rules this should be a straightforward win at appeal. Even if they don't, the LGO will quickly sort it out.

I agree that the LA are trying to give you a load of bull to make you go away.

The only bit that worries me is the comment about "decided to withdraw the places offered in error and reoffer". That implies that this is not just you but a number of parents involved. The LA could argue that as they recognised an error had been made and a number of pupils disadvantaged (those that would have got a place if done correctly) the only way to do this was by withdrawing the places offered in error. In other words they could not right the error just by offering places to those disadvantaged because there would be too many and it would overload the class well beyond 30.

To me if the numbers do not excede 3 then I would be quite happy as a panel member to admit based on a mistake but if it got above 3 then I would become worried as to whether the class come cope. Section 3.2a of the school admission appeals code does allow a panel not to admit all those wrongly not admitted in these circumstances.

I would be tempted to ask the admission manager to confirm the number of pupils who have had places withdrawn by the LA generally and specifically for this school. Tell them you want the information under FOI regs for the appeal hearing. You need to know what they have really done here, is it loads of kids or your kid.

Having said all that their statement about "Para 1.50 places no prohibition on withdrawing a place due to administrative error" is a complete misreading of the paragraph. The key point is that it says the admission authority can only withdraw the place in very limited circumstances, not they can do what they like unless it specifically stops them!

Make sure that you keep the letter and that you take it to the appeal, you might find that it will come in handy to show the panel that the LA have tried to bull you with words.

I would add that my reading of the appeals code (particularly paragraph 2.7) in conjunction with the admissions code is that even if there are a significant number of errors the LA should not be withdrawing places. The correct approach is to stand by the offers already made and arrange appeals for the children who should have been offered places. It is then up to the appeal panel to sort out how many places can be offered and determine which children get them.

It sounds to me like this LA is taking the opposite approach - admitting all the children excluded in error and letting the appeal panel sort out which of the original offers stand.

Thanks to all for your time and great advice.
Its really helpful..

Hi All,

My appeal is scheduled for tomorrow and would like some last minute advice.I have always got some great advice here and I am really thankful for all your advice and help..As advised by admission,I asked for some information under FOI regs to the Admission Manager and to my good luck ,I just got the information today after calling them several times..So the LA has withdrawn 9 places in general and 1 place in relation to the school I am appealing for,i.e.my son's place..Also,I found that last year there were 5 appeals for this particular school and there were 3 successful appeals,that means there were total 33 pupils in the reception.I know there are less chances of winning an infant class size appeal,could you please guide me what are the strong points i should put forward as I have written to them explaining Para 1.50 and a case where 3 days was considered a long delay.
Also,The Admission Manager today forwarded me a letter from the school I have appealed for which says that under health and safety regulations ,it would be detrimental to place more than 30 pupils in the class and there is 1 teacher and 1 support member to support 30 children and things like that.
So,what are the chances of this appeal.I have read the admission code and the appeals code and nowhere time limit is written for withdrawal of places except that the LA can withdraw places if it is offered in error.I am confused.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks..

First of all, the LA cannot in general withdraw an offer made in error. Paragraph 1.50 does say that the LA can do so but only where it is not the admission authority, e.g. the school is a VA school such as a faith school. If this is a community primary school they cannot withdraw an offer made in error. Even if it isn't a community primary school, they certainly can't wait 6 weeks to withdraw the offer. However, with 9 offers withdrawn this year it seems this LA don't understand that.

The letter from the school is straightforward enough. Simply ask how pupils there were in reception last September. You know the answer - 33. That undermines the argument on H&S grounds.

You are right that there is no time limit mentioned in the Admissions Code. The LGO case I referred to was one in which places were offered to a number of children in error. The LA withdrew the offers 3 days later but the decision was challenged and it was ruled that this was too great a delay.

This is a straightforward case. An offer was made and accepted. The LA has tried to withdraw the offer 6 weeks later. They are not allowed to do that and you want the panel to reinstate the offer. A properly trained appeal panel will do so. If you are unfortunate enough to get a badly trained panel, a referral to the LGO will get this sorted out quickly.

Yes,this is a community primary school..Hopefully,the panel members should understand what the admission services or the LA are doing..Thanks prh47bridge for your assurance and advice..will keep you posted on this..

This shouldn't even be going to an appeal, I would have thought.It is a legal matter.

There is some debate as to whether or not this is a legal matter. I don't think anyone has taken such a case to court yet. However, you are right. It shouldn't be going to appeal. When they discovered the mistake the LA should have simply offered a place to the child who should have got it, leading to a class of 31 in Reception. However they haven't and they have refused to back down, hence the appeal. Even if this ends up going to the LGO it will be a lot quicker and cheaper than going to court.

Sorry very late getting to this post - been doing admission appeals today.

I would try to keep the conversation centred on one thing and one thing only, that you were offered a place and to then withdraw it 6 weeks later is completely unjustifiable in law and morally.

Question and answer sesions on whether the school has a health and safety issue above 30 are immaterial. It is for the panel to decide whether you were subject to maladministration by having the place withdrawn after 6 weeks. If they agree this then the school gets a 31st pupil and they can do nothing about it. It is a lousy excuse anyway as PRH as successfully pointed out.

The fact that there were 33 in the school last year, can only have occurred because the LA made a mistake that meant that 3 had to be admitted as exceptional pupils. It might be worth pointing that out that a panle seemed to think that the LA got it wrong last year as well!

Yes,I think admission you are right.Last year,out of 3 successful appeals,I personally am aware that 2 pupils were within the distance criteria limit and iniitally didnt got a place because of LA error but later they won the appeal,and again this year the LA has not offered place to someone who is closer to school than my son is ..but they have not withdrawn any places last year,so why this year..a good question to ask..Thanks for your advice..

Good luck today!

Your LA eather has someone who always makes mistakes or someone who makes them deliberately. Suddenly, they want another child on the waiting list; or are too lazy to care about 31. You can clearly see that it is the LA fault the place has been withdrawn, yet they try to tell you some bull*t that this is correct. The same way the school feels it is all right. And it is not. Hope you win the case without any obstacles.

Any news?

'The fact that there were 33 in the school last year, can only have occurred because the LA made a mistake'

Sometimes there are more than 30 in an infants class for other readons.For example there is simply no where else for them to go.

katiestar - Admission is right. The OP has said that there were 3 successful appeals last year leading to 33 in the class. That means that at least 3 mistakes were made last year.

An infant class size is not allowed to go over 30 with a single teacher as part of the normal admissions round just because there is nowhere else for the children to go. It can go over 30 outside the normal admissions round if a child moves into the area and there is no other place within a reasonable distance. But the only way a class can legally go over 30 during the normal admissions round is if the LA make a mistake.

Hi All,
Sorry,for writing..too late..just busy in the weekend preparing for my son's birthday which is next week.
After 7 weeks of sleepless night,finally the appeal is over.After waiting for 3 hours,our appeal was heard.To my surprise,not a single question was raised about infant class size prejudice and when I told the panel members that last year,3 appeals were successful and out of 3,I personally know 2 of them who were not offered places although they were within the distance criteria and when they appealed,they were successful and that the LA had made a mistake last year as well(as advised by admissions to point out) but they have not withdrawn any places, so why this year ..So the LA said last year facts were different..we did not find any error last year..that's why places were not withdrawn..I asked them so why were there 3 successful appeals if there was no error when the class size is 30.The panel member asked the LA if what I am saying is right..and the LA just said facts were different last year..
On appeal day I found that the child who was not offered a place before,got the place without appealing as the LA just withdrew my son,s place and instead offered it to him..this is unbelievable? I had a list of 30 pupils who got a place on the basis of distance criteria and when I asked the LA how come there are 30 pupils on this list as my son's place is withdrawn it has to be 29 or did you offer more than 30 places..The LA's reply -places were exchanged..my son's place withdrawn and offered to other pupil living closer than us?I told them that places cannot be withdrawn after 6 weeks and this is a community school so the LA cannot withdraw...Finally,the LA had nothing to say..The LA did not ask anything to me as if they have realized what they have done is wrong..
So,I will just keep my fingers crossed till I get the letter this week..
I would really like to thank everyone who helped me through this appeal process and for your good wishes and special thanks to admission and prh47bridge as there were certain legal terms which were clarified by both of you..and helped me to prepare my case confidently and after the appeal I felt I really had a strong case and I could defend myself?
Will write back soon?.

Good for you on your appeal hearing. It sounds like you put your case forward very professionally and like you say they could not argue with you as they have clearly not acted within the admissions policy.

Fingers crossed you get the confirmation of your place soon. What a nightmare you've gone through.

Hope you get good news soon. Fingers crossed.

Hi All,

I have won the appeal!!!
I am very happy that my son has got a place in our 1st preferred school after all the hard work since last 7 to 8 weeks.
I am most thankful to admission and prh47bridge for your advice,support and assurance through this appeal process.All the inputs were given by both of you...
Also,I would like to thank everyone who gave their advice and good wishes for this appeal..
Thanks everyone from the bottom of my heart!!!

Congrats! Fab news. Shame on the council for putting you through this.

Congratulations!

Excellent news. Well done. At least the appeal panel understand the rules even if the LA don't!

brilliant news

It is good when the panel knows what the real rules rather than those that some LAs seem to make up when it suits themselves. Good on them and good on you for making sure that you perservered through to a successful conclusion.

It would be really interesting to somehow have a league table of those LAS who seem to keep "bending" the rules to suit them and have been caught out at appeal or by LGA.