Calling all Sep 10 reception starters - how many of you have a child who can't...

[emkana]

...count to more than three
...recognize any numbers
....recognize any letters
...write anything
...draw anything recognizable

Because people at preschool and school keep reassuring me that not being able to do these things is quite quite normal, but I don't know a single child who can't do these things at this stage, including when I think back to my two daughters starting school.

How old will the child be?

he has just turned 4

Hi Emkana
How old is your child - if just 4 by Sept. then maybe not too unusual. However, if closer to 4.6 then sorry, I would say this is fairly unusual. I think most kids of this age can count 1-10 and recognise the letters in their name. I may be wrong though and hopefully a reception teacher will be along to give some more useful advice. My own ds 4.6 can read and write his own name, reads steadily, and can count mentally to 50, do simple addition/subtraction - not saying this to crow (there are others far ahead!) but to point out that he is very average ability in his pre-school class and this seems to be the level all of the kids are at. however, he is at a selective nursery school.

sorry - X/posted!

My son has some SEN and will get support in school

can count to about 7 or 8 on a good day but doesn't get the connection between those numbers and quantity

Can recognise numbers up to 8

can't recgonise any letters

can't write or draw anything recognisable

he also can't dress independently and has limited social skills.

You haven't told us what your child is good at...

what can I say... he is gorgeous, funny and very very loveable and very very cuddly, but there is nothing he is particularly "good at"

Does he go to pre-school? Have you talked through what he has been doing there and what he shows aptitude for?

Hi Emkana

DD1 is 4.7 (almost) and will go to Special school in September.

...count to more than three - Very variable. Can count to 17 rarely, but not on demand, more nursery rhyme style. Can count to 5 reliably, sometimes 10. Can't necessarily attribute that to objects reliably.

...recognize any numbers - can recognise 1-9

....recognize any letters - Can recognise the initial letter of her name, but thinks that all words beginning with 'M' are saying her name, regardless of the length of the word.

...write anything - No.

...draw anything recognizable - an approximate circle, a cross (but we practiced for aggggeeeess)

do you mind me asking why he is going to special school?

and apologies, I know that I should prob know this from previous threads

emkana, from what I can remember from previous threads that your lo has glue ear. Deafness makes learning harder. Your son is almost a year younger than many children in reception. Do your daughters have winter birthdays?

Don't worry about the writing or drawing. Many little boys have no pen control whatsoever. It will come. My son finished reception at 5 years and 6 months with zero pen control. We did "write from the start" and it really helped him. My son saw an occuaption therapist who said that many boys do not have pen control until the age of seven.

As far as the numbers go, you can teach a parrot to recite 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, but getting a child to understand what 7 objects actually means in real life is far tougher.

DD (4.3) can recognise and write her own name but doesn't really know any more letters so can't 'read'. She can count to 10 but gets muddled beyond that. Not so good at drawing though... She struggles a bit with getting dressed.
She is fab at using her imagination and leaping about being a ballerina and she is very 'aware' i.e she listens to everything around her and repeats it I find that things suddenly 'click' with her and she comes along in little spurts rather than a continous line iykwim.
I think if you are worried you need to contact the school and talk to his new teacher and maybe she can reassure you or suggest things you can do to help over the summer. September is still a long way off.

No need to apologise

She has a brain malformation.

She has difficulties in fine motor, gross motor, speech and language (7th centile, like your ds), behaviourally, attention and concentration, no sense of danger.

She could have gone to mainstream, but would have needed full time 1:1 support, and they would have struggled to keep her in the classroom.

LEA felt that a special school was more appropriate.

Hi emkana. My dd is 4.7. She can count to 20, recognise numbers, recognise all her letters, write only her name (which is about the easiest name possible to write), draw the odd thing that is recognisable but mainly just scribbles. She can't read at all. I think of her as pretty average.

She is my firstborn, and so I am far from being an expert, but I would expect a 4 year old to do the first three on your list, but maybe not the last two. One reception year teacher I met said that most kids start knowing their letters but not reading, and knowing their numbers up to 10. So I think your son is behind the norm, though whether it is a cause for concern I have no idea.

Are you worried?

One other thing that occurs to me is that my dd's pre-school teacher has told me a number of times that she is way ahead of her peers. I find that very hard to believe (see back to start of post - it's not a very impressive list of achievements!). OK, most of her peers speak English as a second language, so maybe it's not a good comparison group. But if she was in icancancan's son's class, I'm sure she'd be seen as the class dunce. Small pre-schools may not give their teachers enough of an oversight to give good advice on what is average, perhaps?

at the preschool they just say that in the EYFS all these things are not a target, so as a consequence they are not a concern. But to me it concerning because it gives an indication that ds will struggle.

I suppose it may indicate a permanent learning difficulty, or it may indicate that he will simply develop these things later (which I understand is quite normal, especially for boys). Either way, the key issue right now is whether he will be starting at a school that can meet his individual needs, identify any possible problems, not pressurise him unduly if he is simply a little later getting on the learning train... How confident do you feel about the school he is going to?

I feel fairly confident with the school, but not very confident with the system in general - would love to be able to delay his school entry so that he could join reception a year later, but that's not to be.

emkana

How about social skills and conversation and other motor skills?

Is the pre-school attached to the school he will attend?

IMHO you are being fobbed off

It is very likely that the glue is a big factor and he will catch up but in the meantime it is not fair on your ds to struggle at school without help.

could you get ds referred to a developmental paediatrican or self refer to the educational psychologist?

...count to more than three - yes, he can count to 20
...recognize any numbers - yes
....recognize any letters - a few, not many - and can recognise his name.
...write anything - no chance
...draw anything recognisable - no

He's not four yet though. Birthday 28th August. His brother started Reception this year, also couldn't / wouldn't write or draw anything at this stage, he can now though. That's what they go to school for, I think.

I'm more concerned about the getting dressed / undressed / going to the toilet thing. Feel some intensive lessons in doing up buttons and zips coming on over the summer.

We have seen an ed psych who said all those things were not an issue, because they don't have to be able to do those things they don't take any notice if they can't do them, no matter what the average child or the vast majority of children can do.

Conversation - he has problems with speech sounds, both expressive language and comprehension are delayed - but SALT also thinks he's "fine" - mainly I think because he was well-behaved and cooperative during the assessment.

fine motor skills are okay.

Ds not yet 4 (August) but starts in September.He is quite good with numbers, which he is interested in.He likes games like snakes and ladders,dominoes and numicon which was recommended on here and is great.He understands 1-10 and adding,taking away of these.
He learnt his letter sounds about a year ago from a cheap alphabet bingo game which my mum got and he loved to play.He hasn't really got blending the sounds together yet apart from odd basic words.

I would say not recognising any numbers or counting to three is not usual.My ds was a late speaker and IMO is behind quite alot of peers in his skills.He is not at a preschool which pushes any of these but is great for play which is what I want.

My ds is pretty hopeless at drawing (likes random scribbles) although can draw people (to usual 3 year old standard) and is interested in letters so will try to write these to write names (all over the place alot of the time but he is interested).

I would also be concerned in your case.

I would make an appointment with his reception teacher and ask her about your concerns.
Ask about school action plus and seeing the senco and if fobbed off and no progress is made in the autumn term go back again.
He may be fine but no harm in flagging up your worries formally.

I just worry how he's going to manage in a class of 30 with two adults.

Pre-school is right, they don't have to be able to do any of those things before they start school (although I'm sure in Wales they are supposed to be able to count to 5). In my class there are a few children who struggle with these things, especially recognising letters and numbers and writing. Counting objects rather than reciting numbers can be a problem too.

I know its a cliche, but summer born boys are often slightly behind girls at that age. I have two boys and a girl, and can see enormous differences between them at that age.

The pre-school will write a report for the Reception teacher, which should mention some of these things. It would probably also be worth mentioning them yourself to the teacher when he starts. It may well be that everything clicks into place at sometime during the next year, but it is worth being aware of what he can and can't do just in case it doesn't.

Emkana, if you are thinking of applying for a statutory assessment (I think you were?) be warned that if you leave the request until school starts, the 'bar' for assessment will be much higher. You will have to demonstrate that the school is not meeting his needs despite all their resources, which of course means that they will refuse to assess until they have evidence that it is failing your DS, which can be up to a year.

If you think your DS needs substantial support in school, you need to write that letter today. Get it in, then the bar is lower. You could just scrape the 4 weeks needed for evidence from preschool, but only if you send the letter today.