What are the hidden costs of a state education?

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

Ds's first school:
Trips times 2
chairs
fundraising-plants, books, charity (red nose/book day/children in need)
school uniform
lunch
reading books for ds as the school did not have any that were appropriate for him.

This is one of the most frustrating things about state provision - it's so patchy.

Posters like MRZ clearly have excellent provision, and others don't.
Our local primary school has no MFL whatsoever. It has no after school provision and only one lunchtime club.
The classes are big, with little TA help.
There is no green space and sports are poor.
I could go on and on...

Local parents with enough money go private. Some drive miles to other schools if they can get in.
It really isn't fair.
I can see why free schools are so tempting.

We seem to have got very cheaply out of this:

trips- dcs only go if we feel we can afford them

out school uniform is actually cheaper than most other clothes (couldn't have them walking around naked if home educated), lasts for a longer time and easier to find in charity shops

as for charity, I would give to charity anyway, it's nothing to do with what the school wants, though I don't mind it being managed by the school: again, I decide how much I can afford to give

packed lunches- well, again, they'd have to eat wherever they were, and a sandwich to take to school is not more expensive than a sandwich eaten at home (use old margarine tubs for lunchboxes)

and the hours they spend at school are hours saved from childcare expenses seeing that both dh and I work

I suspect extra expenses come a lot cheaper if you live in an area where many people are short of cash, so social expectations are not enormous

montmartre But isn't that because you graduated around 1995 so you've spent most of your working life under a Labour government who though throwing money at problems was the sole answer, it is partly but there's more to it in most cases.

Thinking again about the OP, the one big 'hidden cost' that I can think of is transport if you actually try to exercise the choice which we are now supposed to have. I know in towns, its usually not so much a matter of choosing a school, but taking what you're given.

Here, you are quite free to choose to send your child to another school in the county (they all seem to have places) but if you want to go anywhere other than your catchment school then you have to pay for transport, which will be at the least petrol for two 15 mile round trips daily.

That's the main area where I think those with plenty of money truly have a different option in state education to those with less. (Not that I'm in favour of people travelling miles out of catchment in general, but of course there are times when it is genuinely the best option.)

Certainly happens near me.
Children are driven several miles away which if course costs in terms of petrol, perhaps running a secind car that yuou may not have needed.
And it impacts on parents' ability to work.

School uniform I (about £40 a year)
Three trips a year (about £25 - £30)

Lunch (but you have to provide food for your children)

And - if you don't exercise choice and just go to your nearest school - nothing on transport.

(I do believe that people only feel that they need to exercise choice to make them feel they're working hard for their children. The swapping around that goes on round here is ridiculous, with everyone preferring the school slightly further away).

Oh, and the odd £1 for visitng theatre companies (but since this save us £8 on the tickets, it's barely a cost)

Food - well send in a packed lunch, you'd need to feed them at home - same with snacks - at my DSs school they ask us to send in afternoon snacks, a couple of crackers is fine.

Uniform - again they'd need to wear something at home and often uniform is cheaper (eg £1 per polo shirt) that the other clothes they might wear

After school clubs - these are not compulsory, its school not free wrap around child care

Reading books - no need to buy these. If the school can't provide there will be a local library that can.

Charity events are the like - optional

School photos - optional

So as far as I can see the only hidden costs are the cost of trips. At my DCs school they ask for an annual contribution of £25 per child to cover trip - but they make it clear that its voluntary only for those that can afford it. DD does ballet at school after school, its 1/3 of the cost of the local ballet school. And its optional.

"The swapping around that goes on round here is ridiculous, with everyone preferring the school slightly further away)."

Builde, I guess it is because parents want what is best for their dcs and because dcs do not necessarily all need the same thing, even if they live in the same neighbourhood. My catchment school was a CE one and no,it was not the best for my dcs as I do not believe school should have a religious denomination. But on the bright side, I still walk to my slightly further away school and drag the dcs behind me every morning.

There can be quite substantial reasons too - here if you move to the area with a dc with only a year or two of primary education left, they will still go into Welsh medium primary - which can be a problem for dyslexic children, for example (friends' ds was in this position). If you can afford to take them, you can choose the nearest english medium school.

montmartre, huge cuts have happened in my LA already. No more music tuition, bigger class sizees in secondary maths and english meaning secondary teachers made redundant, bigger class sizes in infants.

So what does a 25% cut to the education budget mean if not a lower spend on teachers? After all, salaries are by far the biggest cost since the amount left over to run a school is often pitiful.

Absolutely pointy. And salaries will continue to increase despite the public sector freeze because teachers get an annual increment for the first six years whioch schools will still have to find. (I'm not saying they shouldn't get it BTW just illustrating the relentless pressure on budgets)

It's bloody grim - we'll be reusing staples at this rate.

Generally speaking I think parents get value for money. There is very little extra you have to buy. Anyone who thinks that school ask for money they don't need should sign up as a governor ot give some time to the PTA. The scales will fall from your eyes.

I clearly remember one child in our school. Mum always said, quite clearly, that she wasn't going to contribute to trips as she believed that they should be free. It was about principles, not ability to pay. She proved this later by sending her son to the local private school in Year 2! 3 years of other parents subsidising her sons trip then he was gone. Schools are funded for essentials at the moment and have to make the money they get stretch a long way. I think, under the new wonderful government, that you will be asked to pay more. The essentials (such as SEN provison, teachers, TAs etc) may not even be covered. Still atleast it will be cheaper than private school...

I am astonished at a LA cutting music tuition- that is appalling. Surely it is chargeable to parents, and therefore virtually no-cost to run?

In our LEA we have made almost every service a chargeable service to schools- eg Ed Psychs, behaviour support, IT, etc, and the plan is for School Advisors and governor support to go next. In fact they won't just be chargeable, they will be effectively privately run, thus saving the LA huge amounts of money a year in salaries, accommodation etc.
The cuts we have faced have been enormous- this financial year (2010-11) childrens services (ie what used to be education and childrens social care) has had to reduce budget by £79m.

I have been a school governor for the last 8 years, and we always have money to carry over to the next financial year- some years quite substantial amounts, though that has usually been intentional in order to make a substantial purchase the next year- eg re-do the kitchens, or build a new IT suite.
This is not unusual in our LA- most schools carry a surplus over each year.

Several of ours are in deficit this year and have made redundancies.

I think it depends on the socio-economics of the area. We certainly couldn't charge for music tuition as parents couldn't afford to pay - we have a small after school singing group: it's an hour and we charge £1 a session. We struggle to get parents to pay that and as you say the music teacher is chargeable so it's run at a loss. If we charged more no-one would pay and we'd have no music in school. Recorder club is free. It's a choice between giving the children, who are pretty deprived generally, some experience of music in school and taking the hit or not having it. I wish parents who can pay but choose not to could understand that we just can't afford do do everything for free.

Our swimming is free though and I'm always a bit shocked that some parents have to pay for something that is compulsory in the curriculum.