Oh God private or state????

[topsi]

Our local state primary is OK. It is within walking distance, lots of children there live in our road, its Ofstead is OK, it has a swimming pool, class sizes are about 30.

However only 2 out of 27 children passes 11 plus this year. We live in an area with some very good grammar schools.

Our local day private primary school would cost us about £650 ponds a month if I spread the fees across the year, its class size is 20. 80% of its pupils go on to grammar school! To afford the fees would be a real stretch for us. It is fairly local.

Feel in a huge dilema.

Any idea about how to choose what to do?

I wish I'd never bothered with private school. Lots of my friends feel the same way and the general consensus amongst us is we would have used the state primary and topped up with a good tutor.

Also the fees go up every year and incrementally according to which year group they are in.

My dc are now at a comprehensive school and actually having a far better time than they did at their previous school.

Can you factor in 5% fee increase year on year? Looking at £875 a month in year 6.

5% is average increase sometimes as low as 1.5% increase sometimes as much as 10% increase.

Can you afford the school uniform?

Would you want to do other activities - music lessons etc.

State school but aim to save a proportion of what you would otherwise be paying for private. Use the money saved for fantastic experiences and/or a bit of private tuition from yr. 5/6.

I was thinking along similar lines as pooka - although you could actually move him to the private school in year 5 - thus saving all the fees in the meantime....

Private schools, in our area at least, have a high percentage of children passing the 11+ as well, because they are allowed to practice, practice, practice the tests relentlessly.

State schools in the area are only allowed to do 2 practice papers before the test.

Lots and lots of children go for tutoring (although this is always secretive and never discussed with the teacher!) My ds state grammar was on the TV a couple of months ago and about 1/2 a Y7 class put their hands up to admit 11+ tutoring!

I assume that with a 2/27 pass rate, lots of the parents in your area are too poor to afford tutoring? (Some of our local primaries tell parents to tutor their children leading to a 50%+ pass rate!)

11+ tutoring would obviously be an option for you if you're thinking of paying for a private education.

How important is it in your area to get into the grammar schools? If the choice is good grammar or awful non-grammar then obviously you have to do what you can to improve their chances (though tutoring is perhaps better than being really stretched to cover private school). But if the choice is grammar or quite-ok-really comprehensive then not getting into the grammar isn't the end of the world, and it may actually suit your children to be in a more mixed environment.

If your only reason for private is to get into grammar school i would go for the tutor option, because you'd be royally knarked if your child was one of the 20% of the class who didn't get into grammar school.

We don't live in a deprived area. I don't understand why state schools don't put more importance on the 11plus papers.
I do think that private schools instill a more positive out look onlife.
We were shown round the local primary school by 2 kids one who was delightful and had passed the 11plus and one boy who was distracted through the whole process and kept dancing around etc etc.
I have been shown round private schools by only well spoken children who could concentrate and explain themselves properly.
It's awful I just want the best for DS.

I'm very surprised the pass rate is so low then! Our local paper reports 11+ results and this clearly illustrates the right and wrong sides of the tracks!!

State schools aren't allowed to practise any more papers (in my area - check with yours!!)

It looks as if you have made your decision anyway, TBH.

It also depends on the quality of the private school of course. That can't be measured on 11+ results alone.

Factor in as well as the ability of your ds. I think to get a child into a grammar through relentless tutoring, if the ability isn't really there, is setting a dc up for a miserable secondary school experience.

Thing is you can't measure a school on their pass rate. For example I bet the private school 'manages out' the SN kids and other kids who probably won't pass.

Not only that, but a kid who can do well in a run of the mill state school will be better prepared for life than a kid who has been hot housed in a private school and only did well because they were pushed and not because they had any internal motivation....

I'd definately go state and get 11+ tutoring.

Bear in mind that lots of the kids at the private school will also be tutored.

I'd save your money - I've had children go through both at primary level and the state school was by far the best experience in every way. The child who went to the state primary had a year of tutoring in year 5 and passed all the exams for the very selective private secondaries, plus has had a way better time at school generally. I have to disagree with your commment that private schools instill a more positive outlook on life - my experience at primary level is that many knock out the child's natural character and rebuild them in the school's image.

Its not just about grammar school - class size, music, art, drama, sport - do you value these extras? Some you can buy in by organising yourself others you can't.

State primary and tutors with the money you have saved. You can do a lot of helping of basic skills yourself in the earlier years too.

For me it would depend on the individual schools in question.

Which one is the better fit for your DS?

Like others - depends on temperament and ability of your DC. Like most others where we live, sent DC to state primary and indie scecondary, but they both would have benefited more if we had sent them to indie all through instead of the state primary. Would recommend serious consideration at age 7 as to where they will thrive best.

Why would your dcs have benefited more from private all the way MrsG? Just curious

OP, if money is short think very carefully. It is a serious commitment.

If the 11+ is the main concern, and money an issue, I would go for the state primary, and then tutor later on if needed.

Is there any reason why you couldnt obtain past papers, or similar style questions to practise at home, even if they arent allowed to do that at school?

Save your money and go for the state primary. If you think your child can cope with grammar school, tutor from year 5 onwards. A lot of private preps in 11 plus areas are sweat shops for the exam and the kids are bored stiff by year 6.

A lot of private schools do not do tutoring for 11+. We are in catchment for grammar schools and ours doesn't. Means you end up paying school fees plus tutoring fees for 11+.

Quotes from the websites of 2 local prep schools:

'Our approach results in unparalleled success, more than 80% of children proceed to selective Grammar Schools.'

'In 2008/9 we had an 11+ pass rate of 75%.'

I have a funny feeling these schools must be tutoring!

What proportion of the DCs at the state school actually sit the 11+? If not many enter, then it isn't really surprising if only 2 passed.

I think it would be madness to pass up a place in a good state school and cripple yourselves financially. Spend the money on doing interesting things together, and later on if you really do want your DC to go to a grammar (and they themselves are that way inclined) then hire a tutor.

My children would be very about the local state school having a swimming pool. You need to pay fees around here to get a school with its own pool.

It sounds as though you are inclining towards the private school, but that would not the be choice I would make. If you can afford it (for all your children, including any not yet born) then it should not be a problem. If it is going to be a life of struggle and sacrifice, then think it over carefully.