Questions about the Y1 classroom

[Cortina]

Be grateful and interested in answers to the following questions, thanks:

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings?

How many in your Y1 class?

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment? (In other words say you are in the 'Lion' group, this doesn't change whether you are doing spellings/English or Maths).

Or are distinctions made between Maths and Literacy/English? Do the current attainment/ability groups change for English and Maths? So if your current attainment was higher in Maths you might be a 'Lion' for Maths and a 'Giraffe' for English (if current attainment lower).

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?

Are the ability groupings the same size?

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings?
Yes (though also non ability groupings)

How many in your Y1 class?
30

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment?
There is one grouping for reading/roleplay/computer work/other stuff and a different grouping for literacy and numeracy (have always wondered how this worked for a child who was good at numeracy but poor at literacy). And a non-ability based grouping for topic work.

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?
THe groups were all revised at Christmas and I'd say 10-15 children moved groups. They were revised again at Easter but probably only a few children moved.

Are the ability groupings the same size?
Reading/roleplay/computer grouping - yes
topic grouping - yes
literacy/numeracy grouping - no. There are 15 children in the "top" 2 groups and 15 in the other 3.

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?
No. Actually there is overlap between groupings with (e.g.) children in group 2 being at higher bands than some children in group 1

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc? No, they seem mostly unaware.

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?
I think it works well as a means for differentiating work to the appropriate level. A minor niggle is that there are far fewer boys in the higher groups which means DS feels a bit isolated - also wonder if it means the teaching gets more "girl" oriented, though no evidence of this.

Thanks, redskyatnight, so you have 5 ability groups for literacy/maths, how many approx in each group?

How many ability groups in the other category (the general/role play one)? How many children approx in each group?

Were the approx 15 movements between the literacy/maths ability groupings.

Literacy/maths group the sizes are (approx from memory, top group first): 8, 7, 6, 4, 5

5 ability groups of 6 children in the other grouping

The movements were in both sets of groups (ie. 10-15 children moved in each grouping).

To answer your questions:

1. Yes - it's a mixed Y1, Y2 class and within the year they are ability grouped

1. 15 Y2's, 8 Y1's (split with reception)

1. No, there are different grouping for numeracy and literacy

1. Yes, different groups. Some kids are in the same level group for both, others are higher in 1 than the other.

1. Not aware of any movement.

1. Not at all - simply down to ability - my DS is in a top group of 2 for literacy, the other group is 6.

1. Top literacy group and a few of the lower group are now on library books, ones still on the reading scheme move through at their own pace. In my DD's Y2 literacy group there's a girl in the top group who is still on the ORT scheme, simply because her parents never ever read with her at home - shes' a fluent free reader but just doesn't get through them.

1. No competition I'm aware of between who's in what groups etc - and they are definitely aware of which is top and bottom etc. Some comments when changing books 'I've already had that, I'm on stage 8' etc but nothing terrible - that's life!

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings?
No

How many in your Y1 class?
15

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment?
No ability groupings. However, reading and maths is individually tailored.

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?
n/a as no groupings

Are the ability groupings the same size?
See above

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?
All children work at different levels, even amongst the most able readers there is a difference in levels.

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?
No. I don't even know what level the other children are on.

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?
There are not ability levels, but homework is individually tailored to the level of each child. As the class is small, I think that this promotes more cohesion in the class, yet ensures that children are working at their appropriate levels.

• 23 in the class;

• 5 ability groups for lit, 4 for numeracy;

• sizes of groups - this is approximate -

-literacy - 3,2,6,7,5.
-numeracy - not sure, think 5 or 6 in each
-everything else - ?

• are the groups fluid? only 1 or 2 moves AFAIK, maybe more in lower groups;

• reading bands - ? I do not know what the other children in my DDs group (top) are on;

• Competition - one or two children are very full of themselves, but that is nothing compared to their parents;

• ability tables at ours from reception onwards, including streaming the yr5 and yr6's. A good thing? yes definitely, the groups are not set in stone and there is good differentiation in the work.

Thanks, SofaQueen - I like the sound of the way things work in your classroom. Is it a private school?

Cortina, with 15 in a class a would hazard a guess at yes.

My state-school had 8-12 pupils per year. I remember the concerns regarding the NC when it came in (having younger siblings still at the school). I think they opted to continue to differentiate as they were (tables in the infants, but nowhere else as everyone above infants was working on individually differentiated work anyway).

One can always live in deluded (?) hope Cheese

I'm not sure. The information isn;t shared. There seems to be some kind of banding, but sometimes it's like they mix it up on purpose to stop it being too obvious which group is 'top' and which groups is 'bottom' iyswim.

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings?
no - but their reading/spellings/maths work in school is all geared towards the individual child. Ditto homework.

How many in your Y1 class?
14 (private school).

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment? (In other words say you are in the 'Lion' group, this doesn't change whether you are doing spellings/English or Maths).
n/a

Or are distinctions made between Maths and Literacy/English? Do the current attainment/ability groups change for English and Maths? So if your current attainment was higher in Maths you might be a 'Lion' for Maths and a 'Giraffe' for English (if current attainment lower).
n/a

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?
n/a

Are the ability groupings the same size?
n/a

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?
n/a. The teacher puts the child on whatever level she thinks they belong on, irrespective of any other child's level. My daughter skipped three reading levels at one point because the teacher thought she was finding them too easy.

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?
no. The school prides itself particularly on being non-competitive. I don't know what level anyone else is on, and the children either don't know or don't care as it's never mentioned.

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?
If the class were bigger, I'd probably be keen on ability tables as a way to ensure that the children are being set work that's right for their level. As my daughter's class is so small, though, the teacher is able to cater for each child's needs/stage of development, so it isn't an issue.

Why are you asking, Cortina? Does your childs' class group for ability and do you not like it, or do you think it should if it doesnt already, IYKWIM!

Ability Tables

31 in the class

I'm not sure on details of groups (general/attainment Q)

Different ability groups for maths vs. English

Fairly fluid composition, DS was moved down early on in the year and mentions when people join or leave his groups.

Dunno about size; typically 5 ability groups. They were about equal size when I played parent helper.

Haven't a clue what reading band kids are (only recently learnt DS is green sticker -- he ignores his sticker & chooses by topic/cover instead). Probably not competitive among the kids!

As long as ability groups are fluid & vary by subject the system seems to work well.

I work in a Y1 class.

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings? yes

How many in your Y1 class? 30

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment?

have numeracy groups and literacy groups; other stuff done whole class. Did have phonics groups but now whole class bar 4 I take (not bottom 4 though).

Or are distinctions made between Maths and Literacy/English? Do the current attainment/ability groups change for English and Maths?

see above

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?

depends on how they have done recently. Yes, more than 2 or 3 have changed; don't know exact numbers; when phonics groups occurred this were monitored half termly.

Are the ability groupings the same size?

no

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?

roughly but not all; linked more to literacy (as opposd to numeracy)

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?

not that I have noticed - they all wat to come to my special small group sessions, lol

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?

Seems to work well in class iwork in. DD';s school doens't have ability groups as already v small classes.

Thanks again. Hulbaby do you think the system would be as effective if the children were put in ability groupings more generically - on ability in numeracy and literacy for example?

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings? NO

How many in your Y1 class? 27

Do you mean one set of groups for all subjects, based on a combined abilty for all subjects?

I suppose the only issue with that is that being more able in one curriculum area doesn't mean you will be in another.

Don't know the answers to most of your questions - but worth pointing out that even within literacy or numeracy abilities may vary.

Was a problem for my dd in yr 1 who could read fluently & hence got put with 'top' literacy group (teachers' description) but couldn't write at all.

(I assume she can't be the only child in the world who can read but not write or spell . . . though sometimes from our endless back - and - forth I do wonder!)

Hulababy - yes combined ability for all subjects, so in your classroom maths and literacy ability/attainment groupings are differentiated I see, thanks.

Does your Y1 class have ability tables or groupings? Yes

How many in your Y1 class? 27

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment?

No. They have different groups for guided reading, writing and numeracy, plus a whole-school current attainment-based vertical system for phonics.

Or are distinctions made between Maths and Literacy/English? Do the current attainment/ability groups change for English and Maths?

See above.

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?

No idea. At least 3 place changes have happened at my son's table.

Are the ability groupings the same size?

No. There are fewer children in the lower attainment groups.

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?

Some are, most aren't.

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?

Differentiating by groups often seems to substitute for differentiating by pupil, and it's a poor substitution. The attainment range within groups can be enormous and grouping is a very blunt instrument, especially in numeracy.

This is a few years back (ds is now in Yr 5):

How many in your Y1 class?
30

Are there 'general' groupings representing current attainment in Maths and Literacy and 'general' ability/attainment?

I think there as one for maths and one for literacy

How fluid are they? How many children have moved between the groups this year? More than 2-4?

They were fluid, as in revised each term, and ds did move up. Can't say how many other children did.

Are the ability groupings the same size?

more or less

Are all the children in the top group, if you have general ability grouping, on the same reading band etc?
No.

Are the children competitive with each other about book bands and ability groupings etc?

More competitive before the groupings were introduced iyswim

If your class and school has ability tables in year one and onwards what are your thoughts on the system?

It was the one thing that saved my not-very-able ds from total despair: he was losing all confidence having to work with his gifted mate who was always miles ahead and not very restrained in pointing this out: being set for ability finally gave ds a chance to work at his own level and to realise that there were other children who were also on this level