behind because of gender and age??

[mumbar]

This might be one for teachers or any parents/carers been in the same situation?

DS 5.9 now in year 1. Scored 0.6 on DEST told he shows signs of mild dyslexia. (spacial memory and manual dexterity) December of year 1 told acheiving 'some' of level 1C but not there yet and far off secure. Asked for early interevention but teacher declined due to his age and gender.

Fairly able reader (R/W inc orange) but will often read 'he' instead of 'we', 'was/saw' 'b&d' confused and fail not to recognise a word on the next page he has just worked out. Writing very slow and although he can read words such as what he cannot spell them from memory and still sounds out 2 letter words when writing them.

Am waiting for his school report with his levels at the end of June.

Any advice on which level I should expect him to acheive (I'm an LSA so understand them) and what level should I be asking (demanding) he receive help at?

And what would the DEST test score indicate to any teachers?

Any advice or comments would be appreciated as I just want to help him where and if I can.

Thanks MNers.

DEST dyslexia early screening test for children aged over 4 and a half and under 6 and a half
involves 12 tests
Rapid naming
Bead threading
ability to hear sounds
Postural stability
Rhyme/Alliteration
Forwards digit span
Digit naming
Letter naming
Sound order
Shape copying
Vocabulary
? sorry cant remember
tests attainment and ability to identify "at risk" children for further more stringentstests

mrz would you think a child with 0.6 who is struggling should be having extra support?

I don't know about levels and scores but I would really urge you not to be fobbed off by the "young boy" thing. Early intervention is CUCIAL with dyslexia. DS1 wasn't assessed as dyslexic until Y6 despite endless pleading and a change of schools in Y5 as they kept on fobbing me off with the "August born boy, he'll catch up" excuse - he didn't. DS2 presented very differently but did get a diagnosis (private EdPsych) of dyslexia in Y2. However he still only got 1/2 hour support a week which wasn't enough.

When we moved to Oz I managed to put both boys back a year (I had tried for years with DS1 as he started school a couple of weeks after his 4th birthday, but with no success) and DS2 (Y3) was put on a specialist 1:1 literacy programme where he came on in leaps and bounds. They are now Y11 and Y5 and are both doing really well at school, although dyslexia never goes away. DS1, who spent his school career in the UK saying "I'm stupid, I'm thick" had a scribe for his recent GCSE equivalent exams and got over 85% in everything for the first time in his life. PLEASE do everything you can to get your son the help he needs sooner rather than later.

Sorry if that seems like a bit of a rant, but I have seen what happens when kids start falling behind - it affects their self-esteem terribly - and I am still incredibly guilty that I didn't get DS1 the help he needed earlier.

No thanks for the post and feel free to rant you sound like you deserve it! I am dyslexic and was diagnosed in college. DS is an aug baby as was I. I did well at school as an audio learner so the teach by rote was perfect for me!!!

He does present 'signs' of dyslexia altho only 5 so could just be slow to learn BUT I still think he should have help to give him the chance toc catch up and if he still struggles be tested by ed psych in yr3 when he's 7.

Sorry to hear things were so bad for your DS' and your fight but glad things are ok now. I'll keep fighting and I have the plan to move him schools if they still refuse help after parents evening in a few weeks. He is in infant at the mo so will try for a primary where he can receive support throughout one school.

Is he getting extra, intensive support with his phonics? Is he is being taught with Read Write Inc.? Is this done properly all through the school after all the staff undergoing training, or is it a bit hit and miss?

It sounds to me as though he is not altogether secure with his letter/sound recognition (says 'he' for 'we') or has perhaps been taught some words as 'wholes' so is not always making connection between letters & the sounds they represent.

b/d confusion is very often a result of poor letter formation (it is common in young children and most emphatically not a sign of 'dyslexia')in that child starts forming the both b & d at the top of the ascender, then can't remember which side to do the 'ball' on. Confusing it when reading probably indicates poor memory and not enough practice in distinguishing between the two.

'Sounding out' words while writing them is absolutely fine; it's an excellent strategy and one which skilled readers/writers use when writing unfamiliar words.

Inability to recall a word only recently sounded out also may indicate poor memory, he probably needs to do more repetitions than most children need. If it turns out to be a severe memory problem he may need hundreds of repetitions of sounding out & blending a discrete word before he can read it'on sight', all children are different and learn at different rates...

I would be worried if the school were doing nothing at all, over and above the normal reading instruction, to help him.

Thanks Maizie, He is able to read words by sounding them out, words of 3/4 sylablles. He is secure on his phonic sounds when shown them alone but does find that when they are in a long word he often 'misreads' the other letters. His letter formation is improving but the speed he writes is still very slow. There is no flow if you see what I mean. I am trying to do as much as I can at home but do agree that he needs more intensive support at school but the school won't.

The problem with sounding out his words when writing is that he gets the sounds wrong and seems to put a 't' somewhere in most words!

He is doing read write inc and had read all orange fiction and 3 non-fiction so will be starting the yellow books at the end of this year/ beginning of year 2. He does need to see words a lot to remeber them but was able to head most 2 letter words by sight when he started school but sounds them out now. I'm not sure if that is because thats how they are taught through the read write inc programme.

Do you think that I am now in a position to start demanding support and not accepting that its because of age and gender??

Thanks for all posts so far.

DS1 was very similar in yr1 and has finally begun to catch up now near the end of yr2. He is getting extra help and I have done some toe by toe with him to help reinforce the basics. Toe by toe is quite dull for a young child so you might be better trying something more interesting - I think there was one recommended called Dancing Bears . There was a dyslexia thread on either this board or the Education board a couple of weeks ago where people linked to various books etc so I would be worth searching for it.
My view is a bit of help now makes a huge difference because the brain is still developing and some of the problems are not as hardwired now as they might be at 9+.
DS1 has moved up at least 8 ORT levels between the start of yr1 and end of yr2 (now level 10 and complaining its too easy) but still needs to use a visual cue to remember which way round you write d and b.

Thanks chazs thats all I want really for DS is some support now before he falls further behind and has to catch up more IYSWIM. He is reading level 5/6 ORT along side his RW inc now at end of year 1 so not too concerend about that.

I've tried the 'bed' way of remembering b and d and he is starting to get it right some of the time so there is progress just seems to be painfully slow compared to his peers.

Thanks for the heads up re the thread I'll have a search for it.

Interesting,mumbar.

I know some people don't like 'quotes' but I find it easier to reply with quotes, so:

you say:
"He does need to see words a lot to remeber them but was able to head most 2 letter words by sight when he started school "

When he was 'reading ' these woerds 'by sight' when he started school, was this because he had been taught to decode and blend together the sounds in the words, or just recognising them as 'shapes/patterns'? If it was the latter then it does rather illustrate the dangers of teaching children 'whole words' without any understanding of the phonic code. Many children can cope with it, but some just get confused by it. I wonder if the school teaches some words as 'wholes'?

When I asked about how the Read Write Inc programme is being taught (possibly a silly question to which you're not likely to know the answer) it was because if the school is teaching it properly, by grouping children at an appropriate level all through their year group, or through KS1, then your son should have been given rigorous extra support by now; that is a key feature of a good, well delivered synthetic phonics programme; strugglers are picked up early on and given intensive support. If your school is trying to imply that your son has a developmental delay which is causing him problems with his reading then I would doubt very much if they are actually implementing the RWI programme as rigorously as intended. There is nothing about 'developmental' reading in a 'normal' child.

The problem is that if the school thinks that his problems are due to age and gender (the 'gender' thing is also a load of hogwash) then, however much you demand support, they are not going to be falling over themselves to provide it because they believe it will all sort itself out as he gets older. Well, it just might, but I wouldn't be prepared to take the risk.

If he is doing RWI he is getting suitable instruction - just not enough of it! If you want to do something at home, I would suggest that you look at the BRI books. They are actually designed to be a complete 'programme' for teaching reading, but they will also complement most of the synthetic phonics programmes being used in schools.
www.piperbooks.co.uk/

thanks maisie, by read I meant knew a t was at and i s was is etc.

AFAIK they are teaching him read write inc well he is only has 2 books left of the orange ones then onto the yellow.

He knows the phonic sounds (currently on set 3) and can recognise them fairly easily when standing alone but in words he struggles. He doen't recognise lots of words by sight but can build up most. and his reading is still unfluent and very a. cat. sat. on. the. mat. IYSWIM.

For him its actually writing that is the problem. Its the using the knowledge he has and recognising the sounds in words. And not being able to spell simple words he can read.

ill certainly look at ordering books as i'd really like to support him and i will look at getting some support from the school as he is begginning to say he feels silly as he can't do it and i want to knock it on the head.

what NC level would be considered ok for yr 1 and what NC level would you think below average and support should be given?

I wouldn't worry about the fact that he is still not reading fluently; lots of practice will take care of that (which is why the BRI books are so good, they provide lots of practice within the context of engaging stories). It is a very slight possibility that he may never find it easy to go from sounding out to 'sight' words (which is really just the sounding out and blending being done automatically & unconsciously in the brain at lightning speed!) but more practice will speed up the conscious sounding out & blending to an acceptable level of fluency.

Though I don't actually think it will come to this. I work with Y7s who come to me having to still sound out and blend familiar words and just the fact that they get far more practice at this with me than they have done in the previous few years at primary results in real increases in fluency. It takes time though, up to a year or more.

If you could introduce a 'timing' element to his reading practice, in such a way that it doesn't worry or stress him, that really helps with speeding up the sounding out and blending. Things like beating his own time at reading a passage or list of words, or, better still, beating Mum's time! (But the reading must be accurate, too...)

The writing aspect is a bit different. Does he actually have a problem with hearing the sounds in words? Have you had his hearing checked?

If he is able to break words into their component sounds, and knows how to spell each sound, then he probably needs some practice in writing down the 'sounds'in sequence. At first you may need to input some very clear and slow enunciation of the words, exaggerating each sound, if he can't remember all the sounds and their sequence by himself (for example, I have a child who could tell me all the 'sounds' in 'vanish', but still wrote it initially as 'va ish'!)

And of course, proof reading! If he reads back exactly what he has written he can see that random letters completely change the word... If you have the latest version of Word (or is it the latest version of Windows?) I believe that it has a text to speech facility. This is excellent for children to use to improve their spelling - it 'says' exactly what they write and helps them to realise how the sounds and letters are related for spelling.

Hope some of this is helpful!

thanks maizie that is useful tried the timing but he gets in a panic.

Does suffer glue ear frquently but dr says hearing fine tho.

Ill give try the computer one thats a good idea,

Glue ear may well be affecting his fine discrimination of phonemes when breaking words down for spelling; particularly the ones which are very close, such as p/b and t/d. You may need to encourage him to think about what they 'feel' like to produce - mouth shape, tongue position, passage of air...

Oh no, definitely don't do the timing if it stresses him. My secondary children love it, but they are older and more robust!

On any given day there will be six children with glue ear in an infant class of 30 children (according to medical statistics) something our junior and secondary colleagues perhaps don't encounter and so don't realise the huge impact the condition can have on a child learning to read and write.
If you can't hear the sound associated with a letter shape when you are taught it then you can't blend and segment letters into words and unfortunately make slower progress in reading. I'm afraid it really doesn't matter how many times you repeat the sounds if the child isn't hearing them clearly (if at all) then they are going to struggle.
Usually once the child has grommets or the condition clears up children make good progress and do catch up quickly.

thamks nrz dr has said that as his ears do 'drain the fluid' on their own he doesn't need grommets yet -if at all - and ent doesn't want to see him again until he's 8 and then only if theres a prob.

Think whats prob best is that I see my GP with my concerns about schooling and see what advice they can offer as they may be able to recommend extra support that is required and give me advice about what I can do and maybe even force schools hand re extra support.

Maisie- love the idea of feeling the sounds etc do you think using a mirror would work. Perhaps if I write a word and say it. get him to say it in front of the mirror and then reproduce the word that way??

A mirror would help, yes, but lip shape alone isn't enough, as the production of speech sounds involves tongue position and control of airflow, too. So it involves what you feel is going on in the mouth as well as what you see.

I am not at all an expert on this as I rarely have to use this approach, but if there are any speech therapists around they may be able to explain or point you to good resources, as speech therapists are expert at helping children with speech production problems and so know how to explain the physical process in childfriendly terms!

What I am saying (in regard to mrz's post above) is that if he can say all the sounds in a word, but cannot always 'hear' them because of his glue ear and the fact that some sounds can be more difficult to discriminate than others, then learning to 'feel' them may be helpful for spelling.

thamnks maizie -ds does say things srong still at times 'rend' for end, and amember, acause altho when spelling he does seem to know what they are.

Ive looked the the dancing bears and toe to toe and think that these are both very useful - dancing bears seems the best for ds - so will speak to GP and school ask their advice and get cracking on it.

Perhaps 10 mins a day in school holidays would help bridge the gap and think I'll do a sticker for each time he does it and 7 stickers get a treat such as swimming/ extra computer time or something to stop it feeling like a chore for him IYSWIM.

Can he say the sounds in words correctly? because we find children who regularly suffer from glue ear don't articulate the sounds correctly in words if they articulate at all.
Often ENT don't take it seriously as it is a minor medical difficulty but educationally it can have a huge impact. I have a child in my present class who has been profoundly deaf for 3 years due to glue ear and has been playing catch up at school.

I would actually say he doesn't say all the sounds in words correctly. I wouldn't say its all that obvious unless you spend hours listening to him as I do!!! An example is a curb which he says 'curve'. I repeat curb and he says curve!! Not sure if hes repeating what he hears or hearing what he says back wrongly IYSWIM. I do wonder whether this has something to do with the problems he has.

In year R the teacher (who wasn't particulary keen on DS it seemed) was actually quite rude about the level of volume he spoke at when face to face. I asked her if she thought it was his ears but she said no just him - he is badly behaved. I went to see GP anyway and thats where the diagnosis of 'fluid in ears' came from. ENT hearing test was just a volume one in a quiet room but I don't think it would test how clealy he could hear just that he could.

I have been annoyed at times when DS has been out on the cloud for not listening but its been when teacher has spoken during class time when quite noisy and he's not heard. Unfortunatly the school seem to treat him as naughty when he does behave differently at school but I now children with glue ear find the school environment quite a challenge. If he's naughty/silly then I think he should get into trouble but if its medical then surely they should understand and help?

I just don't feel the school want to provide support at all to ds. They have eevn refused to let him have school meals as he's allergic to tomato ketchup!! (tomato and peanut allergy ruled out by RAST test)

I don't think it does any harm to check out hearing and eyesight if children appear to be having difficulties in reception and Y1 if nothing else it rules out physical reasons for problems. Routine in school screening often fails to pick up all but the very worst cases.

Hear, hear, mrz. A MLD child in my class has just been fitted with hearing aids in each ear. Even though she'd been attending a speech therapist for over a year, no-one had thought to rigorously check for hearing impairment. Speech difficulties had been blamed on her language problems. She has missed over two years of appropriate schooling, having been unable to communicate effectively. We have noticed that her speech has improved by leaps and bounds since she got the hearing aids about 8 weeks ago, and we can understand her so much better.

I was that this very basic thing was missed for so many years by so many 'involved' professionals (speech therapist, GP, paediatrician, Language and Communication, OT).

So I think it is very important to explore whether all the senses are in full working order!

he was given glasses about 2 months ago and Ive noticed his 'concentration' on reading and writing have improved slightly so hopefully this will help too.

I would say you are well on the way to solving his early problems. Unfortunately I have seen it time after time in reception but I would be surprised if he doesn't show good progress now.

Thanks for all the advice, I just think I'm worrying because it's now the end of year one and they use age and gender as an excuse but when he does his SATS they won't IYSWIM.

I'll make GP apt to get his ear fluid level checked and metion problems with individual words/ sounds etc.

Altho I'm no further on I do feel more positive after wise words from MNers.