Infant class size appeal

[coolma]

Have been 'invited' to one of these as dd didn't get into the school her brother is at as we are just out of catchment. She is number 2 on the waiting lst and the school have told us they are certain that at least three children have turned their places down. Now, two questions, will we be told she has a place if this is so and is there actually any hope in hell of winning this kind of appeal? Surely, if there are now spare places, they will be allocating them before an appeal?

Ta

If places are turned down then they should be immediately awarded to those on the waiting list. I would check with the LEA admissions team (assuming this is a community school, as you said the school aren't 100% sure, which they would be if they were their own admissions authority) what the current state of play is.

ICS appeals are hard to win, as you basically have to show that there was a mistake in the admissions process and/or the way the criteria were applied. If you are sure you are in the "right" place based on the criteria (although of course the "wrong" side of the line when it was drawn ) then you haven't got much of a chance I'm afraid, but always worth appealing as you never know & there's nothing lost.

Your best chance sounds like the waiting list. If indeed three places have been turned down & you are second on the list, then one of those is yours. (They are not allowed to "save" places until the appeals hearings, they must be allocated from the waiting list as soon as they become available - if they didn't do that, then you would have good grounds to appeal & would should win!)

Agree with Betsy.

Some LAs have been known to not replace children dropping out until appeals have been heard, essentially letting the appeal panel decide who fills the empty places. However, that goes against the Admissions Code. If there are 3 vacancies they should admit your child before the appeal. If they don't do that, you then lose the appeal and the LA then refuses to admit your child because the school is now full, you should refer the case to the LGO. You won't be able to appeal again - you are only allowed one appeal to a particular school per academic year. But the LGO will take your case and it should be a straightforward win.

Is it possible that the places have already been filled and that you have moved up to number 2 on the waiting list as a result?

Regarding the appeal, it isn't an ICS appeal if there are unfilled places at the school as admitting more children won't send them over the ICS limit. However, it is difficult to win an ICS appeal. You have to show that the LA has made a mistake or that its admission policies are contrary to the Admissions Code or that it has acted unreasonably.

We found out she was number two on the list the day the first letters were recieved, so I would have thought we'd have heard by now! I simply don't understand the system. The school is saying that the LEA hasn't officially let them know that x amount of places haven't been taken but they know that they haven't! Meanwhile I'm ridiculously stressed out!

I guess they can't allocate the places until they've been told they are available, or does the LEA deal with it?

OTOH, the waiting lists are fluid. If a child comes onto it who has a better claim using the admissions criteria, they slot in above your child.

As SoupDragon says, it is possible that children have come onto the waiting list as late applicants and gone ahead of your child. You can go down the waiting list as well as up.

What type of school is this? Is it a community school?

It's just a city primary. It's actually making me feel ill with stress. I know that sounds terribly stupid in the great scheme of things but the school she's been allocated is without a doubt the worst in the city and we will home educate rather than send there, but it's just the usual being mightily fucked off with people who've used granny's address round the corner etc to get a place...Ds has been there for five years, and, whilst knowing that's not ever so high up in the admissions criteria, it does make me mad that she may not get the chance he had. Oh well, thanks so much for your help.

coolma don't dispair yet, check with the LEA admissions team re your waiting list position & where they are with confirming all places have been accepted (or not).

There are often delays that are just part of the process, eg offers go out giving parents say 2 weeks to confirm they want the place. A parent may not want the place, but may not bother to reply by the deadline. The admissions authority (the LEA in your case) then have to write to them again & give them another chance to accept by a new deadline before they can offer the place to someone else if they then don't respond. So you can see how easily a month or more can pass between original offers going out & people on waiting list being offered spare places from those who decline, even though the family may have informed the school that they don't want the place.

Even if you don't get a place at this point, is there typically "movement" in the local area ? Your DD doesn't legally have to start school until the term after she is 5, so one option could be to sit it out on the waiting list if you are very near the top & there is generally some movement.

Could I suggest that you look carefully in the primary school admission book that you should have had from the LA. Find out what it says about the acceptance of places. It should have asked people to respond within a set period of time. The process as per the admission code is that the LA have to give this stated period of time and then write and warn the person that they will have the place withdrawn if they do not respond by X date.

This of course all takes time and I am a bit worried that the school is giving you information that may not be correct. It is for the LA to carry out this work, not the school so they will not be aware of the exact situation, only via parents talking to the school.

I would do as Betsyboop says talk to the LA admission team and see what information they can give you as to where you are on the waiting list and how many places have been turned down. If places do become available then they must be filled from the waiting list not after appeal.

We have to accept within 15 days, so, as we got the offer onApril 26th, it must surely mean that by now all places have been accepted/rejected? I guess the frustration is that why isn't the LEA talking to the schools more quickly! I'm going to make some calls today to see what's going on!

Yes, but some people may have accepted a place and plan to turn it down later for whatever reasons, some may have been offered one of the late rejected places and have not decided. it's not a simple thing.