Those with July/August children in Y1/2

[Cortina]

Did you find that they found their natural level in the end?

How long did it take for them to find their natural level?

Many children in DS's class are practically a year older than him. He's holding is own and has made progress but still feel like he is always going to be playing 'catch up' with the others.

When do any differences in attainment due to age begin to level off? If they every do..Thanks.

Do teachers take age into account with KS1 SATs?

I don't know what you mean.

My DD is an August born baby and is top of her class.

Hi Fab, that's great. From what I see in our class there is a clear divide and those in the bottom third are usually the youngest, especially true with the boys.

There is usually a difference in attainment between a child that's 7 in the first week of September and one that turns 6 at the end of August.

My ds is late august birthday and I think it has made a lot of difference, he is about same accademic level as his friend who is two weeks younger, but friend is in year below so my ds is behind but friend is ahead.

DS2 also August baby and has always been 6 months behind his year at school. Has finally caught up - in his gap year retaking a few A2 modules. So much passed over him at school because he was just a little too young to understand at the time.
On the other hand, one of his school friends was born on 31st August and was always top of the class academically.

Thanks. An Educational Psychologist friend of mine always recommends the late August children going back a year if possible, she says it makes children feel good if they are in the top third of the class and doing this makes it more likely.

Not sure about this strategy myself, not even possible in state system.

Unfortuantely teachers can't take age into account when doing SATS.

You are right, that normally summer kids do worse at school. I think there is some shocking statistic about how many more kids born in Sep / Oct / Nov go to university then kids born in Jun / Jul / Aug.

Sorry I don't have good news for you.

Thanks PeacefulLiz I am sure it isn't all bad news. Teachers must be aware of differences in age, especially in the younger years.

To my mind there must be a time when things level out for most? Certainly as a September child and reasonably bright, I can remember doing well and being ahead for about a year and then finding things more challenging and others beginning to catch up.

I've taught many August born children who have been top of the class and many September borns who have really struggled. I think every child needs to be seen as an individual and not automatically expected to do less well than their older classmates.
As the mother of two summer borns who excelled I would be horrified at the idea they should be kept back a year simply because of their birthday.

Hear hear.

It is all down to ability imo/e.

I don't think it is so much ability as development - rather like trying to teach a bright two year old to read - the child may well be ready developmentally to do this at 3, but not at 2. With DS2 something he couldn't manage one year at school he could manage the next year - so for him, holding him back a year would have been helpful, whereas his friend was way ahead academically (though not physically) and didn't need an extra year.
If a child needs extra time at school age, will it matter when they are 45?

Again I would argue that September born children can be just as developmentally unready when they start school as their summer born classmates.

For those that say it's all down to ability surely a child that starts school just after they have turned 4 isn't going to have the same muscle development in their hands, isn't going to be able to write as well, or be as developed as a child that is close to 5 years old. Understand that levels off in time but surely early on there are differences which will usually be seen in terms of attainment no matter how able/clever the 4 year old is compared to peers a whole year older (unless exceptional?)

I think most of the research and evidence shows that when looked at as a large group they don't catch up until A levels or even Uni - as someone mentioned some of the evidence shows that there are far more autumn term babies go to uni than summer born. However, there are always exceptions to this and some summerborns do just fine throughout their school careers.

Cortina I'm not saying it is down to ability I'm saying it is down to individual children. I've taught August born boys in reception (so barely 4 ) who have fantastic fine motor control and September born children who at the end of reception (so almost 6) who are still struggling to make marks with a pencil. Nothing to do with ability or birth date.

Well, of course it's all down to the individual child. However, statistically summer-born children are at a disadvantage and the effect is apparently more significant for boys.

In my experience, with two August born boys, it's not so much about ability to pick up school concepts as general development. DS2 (who will be 9 in August) has a much wider vocabulary than he did 11 months ago - he's learning words every week, if not every day. His general knowledge has increased just from being alive longer. He can cycle better. He can swim better. He can control a pencil better. He's emotionally more mature. He's taller. So obviously those children who've been alive 11 months longer than him have been learning and developing all that time too.

DS1 (12 in August) really matured academically in Y5 and 6, surpassing many of the older children in terms of achievement. DS2 has been quite precocious (not dreadfully so) but it's still noticeable that the other children from his class on his table for maths are all born in September.

With the summer born boys (leaving aside my own) in their classes I noticed that there tended to be a spurt sometime in Y2 (age 6 - 7) where younger children moved up reading groups and maths groups.

Historically summer born children spend less time in school often up to 2 terms less in reception and often some of that is part time which I would suggest has as much impact on progress as birth month.

Don't worry Cortina, as usual the mumsnetters are all too quick to point out how brilliant their prodigies are but, although there many exceptions of course, in general when children start school, of course there is a difference between summer and autumn born children.

I once read an article that said research showed that the discrepencies in achievement were still there at GCSE level.

My dd is august, and she is in Reception, like your son she is holding her own, and there are children older than her that are doing less well, but in general the high achievers in her class are in the main, september/october born children. Just don't expect him to catch up, why should he? he's not actually behind for his age, it's just that he's younger, just think how bright he would have appeared if he had been the oldest in the class- that is how I view it.

Younger children taking the 11+ get an extra mark or two compared to Autumn children so it must be generally agreed that there does still remain a bit of a gap at that age.

Having said that, I have one child born at start of school year, one near end and one in middle and have noticed no obviuos differnece in ability to cope with work.

There is an obvious difference between the older (girls especially) and summer born boys in our reception class. They may well catch up, interesting to know when it usually happens.

It does vary tbh.

One of the brightest boys esp for literacy in DS2's yr 2 class is also the youngest. He has always been a high-flier.

Another girl I know who was an excellent reader in FS2 was also Aug or July born.

I agree with mrz as usual - it's on the child's ability not their age. I certainly know plenty of Sept born kids in DS2's year who are struggling with some subjects.

My DS1 and DD are both June born; DS1 has always found school difficult; DD has always flown. Go figure.

Maybe it's just coincidence for us. Actually the one girl that could read books fluently on starting is the youngest.

In a way it's good to hear that it isn't too much of a disadvantage (ds is April)

I just think it is foolish to assume that a September child will be the best and that an August born will be behind.

My best writer is August born. She has a better vocabulary than anyone in the class. However, my statemented child with MLD is also August born!

I do think the younger children show their age when they're learning to tell the time! In all seriousness, this could have repercussions in timed tests, as they are less able to estimate the passage of time. (Some schools still use timed SAT tests in Y3/4, and level against these tests.)

Sats are age-standardised!

I was talking about a 'concept of time' disadvantage, not an age-related ability disadvantage.