Reluctance to put children on the SEN register?

[debs40]

I have had a long battle with school this year to get them to acknowledge my son's problems and apply appropriate provision - first by putting him on the SEN register with an IEP and then through the SA and SA+ stages. This has involved numerous professionals who had intervened to help school understand my son's complex needs. He has developmental coordination disorder and is on the autistic spectrum awaiting specific diagnosis of which persistent development disorder this month.

I spoke to another mum of a child in DS's class recently and we have discovered that both boys are awaiting final ASD dx.

Her DS has speech problems and problems with social communication/skills etc and gets a bit of help. However, as we started discussing the SEN pathway, it was clear he has never even been given an IEP in the two years he has been there. Again, numerous professionals have been involved. The lack of formal history to this can affect statementing applications as it is a graduated approach

Out of curiousity I wonder why school would be so reluctant to 'formalise' provision for these children? Is it extra work? Don't want to many children on the SEN register in case it puts off prospective pupils?

Wow! I'm shocked. My school was happy to put both my kids on the SEN register - without telling me, so I wasn't even aware the school had concerns about them. What they're not happy to do is to give them the help they need.

I don't think SA or SA+ require much paperwork - but it does show up in your league table. So prospective parents can tell how many SEN kids there are in the school. Not sure why else they would mind...

Yes, we're at the forced acknowledgement that DS has needs and so needs SA+ - getting those needs met is a different matter.

I wondered about league tables etc. That would make sense.

Im a teacher and it is quite a lot of paperwork putting a chld on the SEN register but that shouldn't stop children being put on if they need to be, its part of the job !

Thanks mumto2...this is quite an old but an interesting article on the point...

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=2646978

I think it varies school to school and county to county. I've moved schools and counties with my sons and the attitude has varied enormously.

In previous school, and authority, I was told they didn't like to do anything formal before 7. In this authority they can't seem to do enough - long waiting lists for the formal autism assessment though.

Is their a separate SEN coordinator at the school you could ask for a review with?

Thanks. I've had a long engagement with the SENCO at school this year already! I'm hoping for an end of year meeting to go through all the reports and identify all the needs so I can ask the school outright - can you deal with this from resources? If not, I'll apply for a statutory assessment.

ANTagony - can I ask where you are now? I'm always on the lookout for good local authorities!

I'm in Denbighshire (North Wales).

Good luck with the end of year meeting - its only the Schools that shut for 6 weeks all the other departments are still open so you can try progression via the local authority etc.

Just another thought but is your GP involved and the community heath visitors? Because I moved I copied all the paperwork I had on my sons to the new local GP and the Health visitor asked for copies when she visited my younger son. They both then met my older son and added a bit more weight (in paper reports if nothing else) to the whole progression of things.

As near as I can understand, In Norfolk there is a distinct lack of funding for SEN (recent changes in the provision), such that schools now have to provide funding for SEN kids out of general funds rather than being able to get external funding for LSAs.

So I can imagine most local schools are quite loathe to have new kids down as SEN.

I can't speak for Norfolk as I don't work there but in my LA funding doesn't change whether we have 1 or 100 children on the SEN register unless they have a statement when we receive additional funding towards the child's needs (not full cost).

It's interesting reading this thread and then looking at the thread where a parent doesn't want her child on the register...

Funding systems vary hugely!
Some LA use audits of need to fund SEN, including Statements, so don't assume that a Statement will always bring funding with it. The audit determines the amount of money, the school decides how to spend it - and sometimes tells parents that they have no money.....

Other LAs fund by the % of pupils on SA/SA+ and then fund Statements separately - read up on your particular LA, threads on here can get confusing because obviously people live in different places with different systems.

MRZ, I think unless you have been through the process as a parent, it is not always understood that the aim of the special needs register is to highlight those children who need extra help or additional support. It does not mean a child is academically below average or behaviourally difficult. Unfortunately, those are the assumptions that people may have.

I suppose if a child is not on the register, s/he does not have to be monitored in the same way as one who is as SEN COP does not apply.

Clenched bottom - I think the important thing is that, no matter how it is funded, a statement brings enforcement obligations in respect of its specific provisions. That is what is important to parents. The duties imposed on schools in respect of the other stages of SEN - SA/SA+ - are limited to a duty to use their 'best endeavours'

debs40 I have been through the process as a parent and wish I had known then what I know now.
My son attended a school with ZERO SEN! and the EP more or less said I was a neurotic mother as his reading age was years ahead of his chronological age and his IQ put him in the top ...blah blah blah! So why couldn't he write? A few months down the line new school new EP diagnosed ADHD /ASD

I should probably add that now I am on the other side of the process as a SENCO. When I was asked if I would take on the role (I hadn't applied) my head explained that he thought I would have a greater empathy with parents.

Fortunately I work in a school where all children are valued and all staff believe we have a duty of care regardless of labels or lack of them. In OFSTED's words "The proportion of pupils with SEN and/or disabilities is well above average ... I know I do the paperwork) and described their learning and progress as good.

MRZ I meant that parents being asked about putting their child on the SEN register might be taken aback and not want that because none of us generally understand what it is unless we have to go through it. I wasn't suggesting you didn't have the knowledge if that makes sense!

You sound like you really take SEN seriously but, as a parent, if I'm choosing a school for my child, how do I know, really know, that they are going to have a genuine commitment?I mean, none of them will say we don't value all children equally, so how do you know?

A rough indication is the level of SEN in the school related to outcomes (not the best way admittedly) also insider knowledge other parents although this isn't always reliable. It is a mine field and as I say I wish I knew what I know now when my son was in primary.

Trouble is though, if the school is like DS's, children may not be on the SEN register anyway for outcomes to be measured.

Is your school considered very 'academic'? I have found that those schools which are very driven in that way may not have the time to give to children who may not fall into the 'average' learner box.

All children's outcomes are measured whether or not they are on the SEN register and sometimes it is to the school's advantage to have children on the register.

My school achieves well but we would not see ourselves as "academic" we prize self esteem highly and endeavour to help every child reach their full potential.

That sounds healthy mrz. I just don't know how you find schools were people think like you! I feel I have made mistakes already and it is hard to trust your own judgment again.

How do you get to the bottom of a school's attitude to SEN - particularly something like ASD? Parents in our local NAS group all appear to have had negative experiences and one was explicitly told by a Head that she wasn't going to use valuable school resources supporting a child who was not 'failing' academically. The fact that the child is not doing as well as he or she could be doesn't seem to be of interest.

Would you go for a smaller school, with a caring ethos but less overtly 'academic'? What kind of questions would you ask?

I agree it can be a bit of a lottery visiting schools only allows you to see what the school wants you to see but it does give you a feel for it. Do the children seem happy are staff welcoming, willing to talk or are you ushered around in silence. Is there a "buzz" ...
Any signs of visual timetables and other visual prompts that ASD children often find helpful. Workstations and escape routes if it gets too much. We use the Amazing Five Point Scale (not just with ASD children as methods that work for SEN children benefit all children). Personally I'm not in favour of withdrawal from lessons or having "bottom tables".

Thanks. Sorry for all the questions!!

I would ask how they support children
strategies they use
are there places for children who may need time out to go and how do they indicate to the teacher they need a break
just looking at where children sit can be a good indicator
I had to ask a new member of staff to move a child with ASD away from the open plan doorway to avoid distractions and put him in a place near her with walls on two sides because that made him feel secure ...obvious when you think about it so obvious it can be overlooked.

I am struggling with this - in the subject's DD can access (whether due to intervention/support or due to a lack of barriers to her inclusion) DD is achieving better than she did before her "additional need"

I have no idea whether she will get much support because she is now average in everything & so 'achieving' in the most basic sense of the word

Thanks, that is helpful. Breaks have been a big issue with DS's school. They haven't seen the need to accomodate breaks unless he looks so tired that he's basically slipping under the table on to the floor (literally), then they send him with the register to the office which is progress.

I suppose ASD can be 'invisible' so teachers don't really understand the issues which go with it unless the child's behaviour causes a problem for the class/them.

I think the teachers see it as 'social work' i.e. it's not catch-up numeracy or literacy but talk about the social communication/sensory side of things and there seems no understanding.

So we have SALT offering to set up IEP targets and school do it themselves althoguh they have minimal understanding.

They train a TA on the Early Bird Plus course with us and move her from the class as soon as she's finished the course, leaving no one ASD trained in the class.

They don't write in the home/school book unless DS (who is 7) hands it to them which he can never remember to do without prompts which they won't give

SALT and Autism Outreach suggested social stories, help cards etc. None of these have been implemented because 'he's fine'.

A copy of the Autism Outreach report was given to me two months ago. It is pretty helpful. However, I realised, on looking at it last week, that it was the actual report. So I asked SENCO who confirmed they didn't have their own copy. I'm not sure when they were going to notice this. Doesn't bode well for the recommendations being implemented

I can't understand the reluctance to put him on the register, provide a pathway of support and ask for external help. Everyone who has come in has said he needs a whole variety of supports so perhaps that is the answer. The old TA told us that each time she came back from the course she would be greeted with 'Oh God have you got more work for us'.

I need to get away from that attitude as it is like getting blood out of a stone - a smiling, highly academically driven stone

I introduced the incredible 5 point scale into classes and basically when it gets too much the child can just say "I'm on four" and the teacher knows they need a break.
These are simple but effective the child turns the colour to the teacher - green = I'm OK yellow = I'm anxious/upset red = please get me out

They both look good. But you know, when I look at them and realise DS's school are not going to be bothered with that for him, I think, it's definitely time to move on.