Primary Waiting Lists

[Sunnydays1234]

Wondered if someone could help with a query on waiting lists. I applied just after the closing date so didn't get my catchment school. After the allocations I contacted my LA to check what place we were on the waiting list and was advised we were at the bottom of the list because we applied late. My LA have allocated the list with catchment, then distance, then late. I advised them of the Admissions Code 3.19 but they say they are right in the way they do the list. If we had been included in the catchment list we live the nearest to school so we would be first. I have found out today that all places at the school have been accepted, one wasn't but they've allocated this off the waiting list. I have raised my query to the LA since the first week in April, What should I do now?

prh47bridge & admission, sent my mail off to admissions Thursday, - how long do you think I should leave it to get a reply?

I think at what is a very busy time of the year for admissions etc you will need to give them at least a week but I would not let it get past two weeks before you start chasing them for a reply. They will need to think through the consequences of the letter, so possibly next Wednesday would be a good point to contact them again.

Agree with Admission. Admissions departments tend to be snowed under right now.

ok will hang fire until next week.

prh47bridge & admission - please can I contact you directly? I've had a letter from the LA and they have sent me a couple of pages of telling me nothing I don't really know because I've read the admissions code and understand what it says. But they insist the council doesn't consider that it's published admissions arrangements in relation to applications received after the closing date are in breach of the schools admissions code. I wondered if you could look over the letter and see what you think?

Unbelievable. They've had the DCSF letter and they still don't think they are in breach of the Admissions Code.

You can contact me on [email protected].

[email protected] is the email address

Thank you, just trying to scan the letter and send it through to you both.

I hope my mails came through OK the files were scanning quite large???

Got them and replied but for the benefit of anyone following this thread the LA is trying to defend the indefensible. They are clearly in the wrong.

Thanks for the update prh47bridge. I'm watching with interest due to my own family's situation.

I'm very impressed with SunnyDays dtermination.

I'm watching this with great interest, as a late applicant waiting for a place myself!
Good on you, SunnyDays; hope it works out for you.

Only just noticed this thread. As always, admission and prh have guided you very well through all this so far.

I will watch with interest.

Just to add, that from what happened in our LA when they dug their heals in stupidly after having a dodgy interpretation (just plain wrong)of the admission criteria, I would say that you ahve a VERY strong case to go all the way. Our LA was taken to the High Court for being wrong (before I was a panel member). It cost a fortune, caused outrage due to so much local money wasted defending their stubborness and a huge outcry when they were forced to back down. THey were then sued by other parents who had tried to battle, but given up beforehand, causing enormous amount of bad press at the time and left a feeling of mis trust pervading any admission issue. ALso the reason why I became a panel member as they sacked ALL the previous ones!!!! Ever since then the training has been very thorough, everything done by the leter of the law (as it should be) and the LA jump up and down crazily when anyone questions the criteria.

No way would/should any LA want to be hauled through court for this type of thing.

Their arguement is indefensible, but they are probably going along the lines of the policy being agreed many years ago and it has always been done like that, so no need to change. - that was our LAs arguement anyway!!

Stick with it. They are wrong. But I hope it is all sorted without tooo much time and frustration needed!!

Hi Admission, I did try to send the letter through to your address but I'm not sure if the files are too big but I keep getting a returned mail with - address rejected: Over quota?

Hi the files did come through, though they were over quota. Been doing appeals all day so not had a chance to look at the letter till now.
I have replied like PRH and agree the council are just trying to justify it to themselves. Your only recourse is to go to appeal and go to the LGO.

Just an update on this, still no further on - I get the impression that no one is taking this case seriously. After explanation of the consequences to the LA if this goes to appeal did I seem to get a reaction? I am hoping to get a final decision on this by the end of the week or I will be pursuing this through my appeal and further if this may be the case.

admission & prh47bridge, you obviously know your way around the legislation, so some advice would be appreciated. Do you know the reason why the admissions code doesn't discriminate against late applicants? In our town, all three of the primary schools have been oversubscribed since initial allocation. There are still double-figures of us trying to get places for our children 'better' than the ones up to 4.5 miles away that we have been given, despite some of us even having elder siblings at (non-catchment) schools in the town. It seems so unfair that people can move into the area after the closing deadline and jump straight to the top of the waiting lists simply because they are in houses - often only rented - closer to the schools than the addresses we have all been living at for years. If there is a good reason for clauses 3.19 and 3.20, I'd love to be enlightened.

The clue is in your question - why "doesn't [the code] discriminate against late applicants". The general rule is that the code doesn't allow discrimination against anyone.

The reasoning is that late applicants won't be able to get a place at a popular school as it will be full up with on time applicants. They have therefore been penalised by missing out on their preferred school. To then put them to the back of the waiting list would penalise them a second time. This is regarded as unfair.

If you already live in the area and find people moving into the area getting ahead of you on the waiting list, you will understandably feel frustrated. You will probably feel that people who already live in the area and applied on time should be given priority.

Equally, if you move into a new area and find that you have no chance of getting your child into a good school because you get shoved to the back of waiting lists even if you live across the road from your preferred school, you will feel frustrated and will wonder why your child is being penalised for something that is not the child's fault.

The situation with waiting lists is no different from the situation with admissions generally. Someone can move into the area a week before the deadline for applications and will be treated equally with people who have lived there for years.

LAs should take steps to ensure that the address given for the child is their genuine long term residence and will be the address from which they will travel to school. If a place is obtained fraudulently it can be withdrawn, even after the child has started at the school.

Thanks for the reply. 'Frustrated' doesn't even come close as I contemplate putting my 4-year old in a taxpayer-funded taxi and walk my older child to school, or jettison my 8-year old on the pavement 20 minutes before his school gates open in order to drive the first 9-mile round trip of the day to my younger child's school.

I would just like to say my application didn't go in late because we'd just moved into the area, we have lived in our house wthin the catchment area for seven years. My application was in just after the closing date and this was due to a number of personal reasons. My case is that because we weren't included in the allocation round and because we live the nearest to the school we should now fall into the catchment criteria on the waiting list, so we should have been placed at the top of the list not at the end. When a place became available we weren't offered this place.

I do feel the same that it is unfair that people are allowed to rent a house which could give someone a place and if they do not intend to stay long term and be part of the community, but there isn't anything that we can do about this because they aren't breaking the admission policy. I asked my LA and they advised, in the case of rental properties the agreement would have to be for a minimum of 6 months or more if the agreement did not extend into September further confirmation would be requested of continuance of the rental agreement.

Leftontheshelf - I can understand how you feel having been in a similar situation myself. This is one of those situations where someone will be unhappy whatever policy is adopted.

for the benefit of anyone following this thread I just wanted to update you all. My LA wouldn't admit they were wrong before appeal, so we attended the appeal hearing earlier this week. My letter came today to confirm that my son has been granted a place at the school.

The LA had tried to say before the appeal that someone had joined the list who lived closer than us, but I had written proof from the LA which showed at the time the place became available my son would have been first on the list. But when we went to the appeal they did finally admit that he would have been offered a place because we lived closer to the school than the person offered the place off the waiting list.

The Panel granted the appeal on the grounds that the decision to refuse my son a place was as a result of admissions arrangements contrary to the mandatory provisions in the Schools Admissions Code and the School and Standards Framework Act 1998 as argued by us during the appeal. The Panel further determined that had the admissions arrangements been compliant with these provisions, my son would have been offered a place at the school.

In making their decision, the Panel has also immediately referred the arrangements it considers to be unlawful to the Schools Adjudicator in line with the provisions of the Schools Appeals Code. They are going to make arrangements for a place at the Primary School.

A big thank you for all your help and guidance without it I may not have won!! All I can say is make sure you get everything in writing from the LA and never give up. I can tell you all the frustration and hard work has been worth it to finally get the result we were after.

What fantastic news! You must be so happy.

Thanks so much for updating us; I've followed this thread with interest and had been wondering how you were getting on.

It has been a real battle and I a number of times I nearly gave up. But it was so hard when you keep getting told even with all the evidence I presented to the LA that you are wrong you start to question am I right, but at the end of the day as I kept pointing out to them the LA were in the wrong. So it was well worth it in the end.

Many thanks for the update - and well done you for going through what has sounded like an intimidating process.