Stage 1 appeal info please. PRH?

[Kimmy1979]

Hi, i have already started another thread about my primary appeal, but just wanted some advice about stage one stuff. I get a bit lost in the numbers and would appreciate if someone can tell me whether they will try and argue 'future prejudice' based on numbers?

• They have 280 on roll
• PAN is 40 (2 classes of 20 in foundation and yrs one and two)
• They have one yr three class
• They have one year 4 class *The prospectus states thay have two year 5 and 6 classes although i know that they in fact have a mixed yr5/6 class in there somewhere.

The school and LA are avoiding asnwering my questions about how classes are broken down.

Any advice?

Thanks

And I've just posted something on the other thread!

A PAN of 40 suggests a capacity of 280, so if there are that many on the roll they are almost certainly full to capacity. However, there are two net capacity figures - the calculated net capacity (which is based on the number and size of classrooms and some other factors) and the agreed net capacity (which is the one they actually use to set the PAN). The calculated capacity is expressed as a range, e.g. 280-310. The agreed net capacity may be at the bottom of that range. If it is, that may help you a little at the appeal if you can get the figures from the LA. Try to get those in advance, though, and only introduce them if they help. If it turns out the calculated capacity is 252-280 then keep quiet about it!

I'm left a little confused as to how many classes they are actually operating. If they are full to capacity and they only have one class each in Y3 and Y4, those classes will each have 40 children. That's pretty big. With 160 children in Y3-Y6 I would hope they've got at least 5 classes. That would work provided several of the classes are mixed.

The fact that they aren't answering your questions is worrying. I can only speculate as to why. However, they should provide a full class arrangement in their papers for the appeal. This will show exactly how many classes the school has and how they are organised. In the meantime, put your question in writing (email will do) and make it clear you view this as essential information to allow you to prepare for the appeal. Under the Appeal Code paragraph 2.12(b) the LA must give you all the information you reasonably ask of them. This must information must be supplied to you at least 3 working days before the hearing. It would be very difficult for them to argue that a request for the class arrangement was unreasonable.

Whilst it is obviously useful if you can show that the school can cope with extra children, the fact that there are 11 children appealing suggests you are unlikely to win in stage 1, although it obviously helps if you can show that the school can cope with one or two more children. If I were you I would do what you can to attack the LA's case in stage 1 but concentrate on stage 2. That's where this appeal will be won or lost.

If you do get a class arrangement and/or the calculated net capacity I might be able to give some further ideas (but no promises!).

Thanks, you have been very helpful!

I think the first thing to say is that the LA have to put their reasoning down in writing so you will know 7 days before the appeal exactly what the LA are saying and the exact number of pupils in each year group.

A net capacity of 280 would suggest 9 or 10 classrooms of 30 average capacity or more small classrooms. You are saying that you believe that they have 6 infant classes over reception, year 1 and year2 each with 20 in and then 4 classes across the junior years. That suggests either enormous classes in years 3,4, 5 or 6 or these years only have about 30 in each of them. I suspect the later but with bigger numbers in the infant years.

If I am right then the school will have to change the class structure if the numbers in current year 2 are more than say 35 as they move into year 3 in September. That change will be almost certainly be to run with 2 foundation classes of 20 and then 3 classes between years 1 and 2. That would give 80 pupils between the 3 classes, so it would still not be infant class size and they could not argue future prejudice. However what needs to be said is that the absolute maximum that any appeal panel could admit and not fall over the infant class size regs is 5 in each year group to make the combined years up to 30

My possible explanation may also explain the reluctance of the LA to give you figures, they do not know yet what the headteacher is going to propose as the class structure yet. The headteacher incidently is not allowed to admit pupils over the admission number and also will get into trouble if they support admission of pupils over the admission number.

It is difficult to advice further without knowing exact class make up and numbers. But my gut feeling would be the same as PRH with 11 appealants you are unlikely to win at stage 1 with all 11 being admitted, it is all about creating the right atmosphere that the panel are comfortable to admit some of the 11 after stage 2.

Thanks Admission. The school definitely have two classes of 20 in foundation and yrs one and two. It's further up the school that mixed age classes come in and it gets a bit more complicated.
The head is not answering my questions (he does not want extra numbers as is not supporting anyone).
I will give you the information from the LA when i get it!
Thanks for all your advice!