Appeal advice please (not infant class size)

[Kimmy1979]

Hi, i was wondering if anyone has any advice please. My son was not sucessful in gaining a place at our most local primary school for September. We are appealing (along with 11 others). Our date is 14th June. I will try and provide as much info as possible:

• The school has a PAN of 280. It is a small school with mixed classes at the upper end of the school. It does not come under infant class size restrictions as there are 2 classes of only 20 children in Foundation, years one and two.

• They are undergoing expansion-with a new building to house the Pre-school and Foundation classes. This is on target to be ready by September. There will therefore be extra room in the main building once Foundation relocate to the new building.

*The headteacher is sided with the LA and does not want extra children. Ofsted completed in Feb this year they got Outstanding in all areas.

• They used GIS to determine crow flies distances. We missed out on catchment by 90metres. They had a high intake of siblings this year and it's the first year on record that we were not within the catchment.

Our case is as follows:

1. My son has a medical condition called hypermobility. It effects his balance, posture and mobility. His ankles are at a bizzare angle and he trips and falls regularly. I do not drive and so we need to walk. The preferred school is 0.4 miles from our house and our Consultant provided us with a letter stating My son should not walk distances exceeding 0.5 miles without significant periods of rest. The allocated school is 0.7 miles away. We do not meet criteria for having transport provided as the allocated school is less than 2miles away. I know the distances don't seem much, but if he had to walk to the allocated school it would mean walking an extra 20 miles a month (91miles extra over the school year)which is likely to make his condition worse at this delicate stage.

We have also had statements from our GP, Physio and Podiatist in support. We DID NOT disclose this on application (fools) as we have always been in catchment before, and my son is pretty sensitive about his condition as he has been bullied before for being so clumsy. Thought applying was just a formality!!

We are 8th on waiting list and have sent our medical evidence to LA to try and get him higher on list (as medical conditions come only second to children in care in their criteria). However the LA are being unhelpful and are blocking us a bit.

1. My son is shy and sensitive as a result of previous bullying. He has managed to make three close friends at preschool and ALL of them are going to our preferred school. He needs their support to cope with transition and prevent him from being vulnerable to bullying. The parents of the friends have also all provided statements in support, as have the preschool staff.

1. My daugther is starting preschool on the site of the preferred school in September. The allocated school does not have a nursery. I can not be in two places at once, and she will be late to preschool every day by about 20 mins.

1. I walk to work and would need to dramatically reduce my hours if we lost appeal as the allocated school is in the opposite direction from work.

No one has ever been sucessful in appealing for our preferred school before, but this is the 1st year that the building has expanded. The LA are starting to see me as a pain and are stating to be very unhelpful in answering my questions.

So desperate. Please help with advice on how to beat atage one, and how best to present my stage two information.

Many thanks xkx

I have no relevant experience, but I would have thought that a statement of special needs would signicantly boost your odds. I'm guessing that focusing on the physical needs to attend a local school is your best bet (the rest of your concerns won't count, alas!)

Have you tried the SN board on here, they may know how you might be able to get the Statement ASAP.

Bumping for you, too.

Thanks CantSupinate, not sure about the statement route-it is indeed a long term medical condition, but he doesn't have any particular educational needs, it would just be beneficial for him to go to our closest school to reduce mobilising distances. There is nothing a school needs to do to support his education.

We got dd in at secondary due to problems caused by precisely this medical condition! We did fail at application, due to not submitting enough medical evidence that was specifically directed at explaining why only this school would match her needs- when we included this we won the appeal.

Our appeal was based on this:

1. She sometimes needs to use a wheelchair, so school needed to be wheelchair adapted.

1. On the other hand, she also needs to walk as much as possible so the school needed to be as small as possible.

1. She has suffered emotional trauma due to not being believed (substantiated by letter from Children's Mental Health) so needed to go to same school as at least one friend who could explain to other children. - in the verbal part of the appeal, I explained a little to the panel about the psychological effect of the condition

1. I got the impression that distance enough would not has done as a criterion- the only reason we get LEA transport though under 2 miles is that I have submitted medical evidence that I cannot push dd there in a wheelchair due to my own HMS and that I cannot drive due to poor vision; otherwise their take is that it's the parent's responsibility to organise logistics. I do have to push ds to his school (0.6 miles, same condition) as I cannot claim to be unable to do that. I also had to explain why dd's condition makes her unable to use public transport on a regular basis, so don't forget that bit.

I also got the impression they prefer giving you transport to letting you into an oversubscribed school. However, I did use the transport argument for pointing out that dd needed to be near local surgery so as not to miss too much school during frequent medical appointments (they don't like the thought of attendance dropping).

1. I also argued that long bus or taxi journeys would be detrimental to dd's health and therefore to her school attendance.

1. Otoh I would not bring in your own work circumstances or anything like that; don't think that will help with the panel. Focus on his needs.

Firstly to correct the terminology - the PAN (published admission number) is 40, the net capacity is 280. A primary school with a PAN of 280 would be huge - almost 2,000 pupils! Pedant mode off...

The LA is required to answer your questions. If they fail to provide the information you have reasonably requested in time for the hearing that would be a breach of the appeals code and would justify a referral to the Local Government Ombudsman if the missing information was relevant to your case. That doesn't give you the right to information protected by the Data Protection Act, of course, nor does it mean you can ask for stuff that is irrelevant. Make your requests in writing (email will do) and keep records of their responses.

As you are aware, the appeal will be in two parts. In the first part the LA will argue that admitting any extra children will cause prejudice to the school. You will then have a chance to question the LA's representative. This would be a good point to bring up the new building and ask what effect this will have on the school. Any other points that suggest the school can comfortably handle more children should be brought up as well. Do you know how many classrooms they have? Are the classrooms small? It may be worth finding out from the LA what the calculated net capacity is. That may turn out to be significantly higher than the agreed net capacity (280), in which case this is also something you can bring up.

It is possible that all the families appealing will be present for stage 1 to save the LA having to present their case a dozen times.

In the second part the other families definitely won't be present. This is when you present the case for admitting your child. As CantSupinate says, your points 2, 3 and 4 don't help you. If you go to a few panels (hypothetically - the hearings aren't public) you will discover that almost every child is shy and needs to stay with their friends. Logistical and childcare difficulties also come up regularly. Appeal panels have to ignore all of this.

Your son's hypermobility is definitely your strongest point. Make sure the letter from the Consultant says "in my opinion" or similar. It must be clear that this is the Consultant's opinion, not just a reflection of your views. The same goes for the letters from your GP, etc. Does your consultant clarify what is meant by a "significant period of rest"?

I would recommend concentrating on your son's hypermobility in stage 2. You want the panel to focus on your son's condition and his need to attend the nearest school. You can mention the other factors if you want but keep the focus on your son's condition. Present the facts simply and unemotionally.

You will need to explain why you can't drive your son to school or use public transport. You may well be asked why you didn't mention your son's condition on your original application. The reason you've given above seems to me eminently understandable.

Thanks for advice, very helpful. Hsve never spoken to anyone before who understands the condition Cory! My son's condition is not so severe that he needs a wheelchair, he stands on my daughters buggy at the moment but of course he cannot do this forever! He is capable of walking but the more distance he covers the more he goes oner on his ankles and falls. There is no research evidence to suggest that i need to limit his activity but the consutlant has stated clearly they think 0.5 miles is more than enough for a boy with the condition and age of my son. Do you have any other advice/evidence re: HMS that could be useful?
Many thanks all xkx

I would just query one part of prh47's otherwise excellent post. I think in a case of hypermobility syndrome you can bring in sensitivity and anxiety, as anxiety and depression are known to be associated with this particular condition, so it's not quite the same thing as NT little Tarquin being such a sensitive plant. But you need to explain to the panel that you are talking about something different, and you need to provide expert evidence that your son is actually suffering from this more than a normal child without his condition can be expected to. In dd's case that was easy, as she had years of counselling behind her. But your GP or paed may be able to do something here.

It is also imo perfectly ok to explain how this particular condition, because of its particular aspects (invisible disability, clumsiness, intermittent pain interspersed with seeming wellness), lays a child open to bullying.

I have two children with hms: dd (13) and ds (nearly 10). Dd has actually got a bit better since puberty, so that's always something to hope for. She doesn't often use the wheelchair but brings it to school with her just in case; and now and then she has a bad patch and does use it. When ds is bad he uses it, though atm he is mainly having hip pains so not really attending school much at all. When he is well, we do let him run around and play football etc; boys do need to be boys. And dd does musical theatre when well enough, so all is not doom and gloom.

Thanks so much. He has gone through so much and found it hard to make the 3 close freinds he has (who protect him). I would be lying if i didn't confess that a large reason for wanting him to go to preferred school is because these protective freinds will be there. I know not to dwell on the freinds thing too much tho. Your words re: invisible disability etc are so right. If you have anymore of these pearls i'd be grateful to hear them....xkx

I wasn't meaning to say you shouldn't bring up sensitivity and anxiety. Sorry.

The point I was trying (and failing!) to make was that everything should be presented in the context of your son's condition. So yes, bullying, sensitivity and anxiety may well form part of your case and, if presented properly, will be much stronger than the 101 other "sensitive, shy, bullied" children the panel will hear about. And I actually would say something about his condition making him subject to bullying and the fact that he will have 3 close friends who protect him. Don't spend too long on it but it all helps to build a picture.

Your original points 3 and 4 are not obviously related to your son's condition at all. Neither of them is something that allows the panel to admit your child as they stand. Logistical problems and work problems don't count, I'm afraid. On the other hand if the school is nearer your work and this means you can get to the school much quicker in emergencies (given your lack of transport) and if having your daughter on site will somehow help your son...

That's what I meant by keeping the focus on your son's condition. Present everything in terms of the effect on your son.

Thanks PRH you have made some useful suggestions. The preferred school is indeed much closer to work and if we wil my son and daughter will be in the same new building, only separated by a dividing wall. Not sure her being their helps him but i could add that into the case! thank you

You definitely have a good reason to be considered under the medical admission criteria if it is the standard type of wording. So my first thought is to confirm that the LA have all the appropriate information (consultants letter etc) that they need so they are able to make that determination. They are probably not being very helpful because they are snowed under with appeals etc at present but that is no help to you. Get any extra information to them in writing and keep a careful note of the date and anything they say.

I make the point about dates because of the waiting list. With your son in the medical category they will almost for sure be top of the waiting list but as you know they are currently 8th based on straight line distance. If any places becomes available then the first on the waiting list gets the place which at present is not you. My contention would be that the LA is guilty of maladministration by not making a quick decision on your son's medical condition and if any pupil has been admitted since you put it in writing to the LA that you needed to be considered on medical conditions (and they had the documentation) then you have a good case at appeal. This needs to be explored at stage 1 of the process. The LA has to answer questions about all admissions after the initial allocation and also when they were given the place.

At stage 2 explain the symptoms and explain the problems this gives. You need to make sure that in the documentation that you submit for the appeal that the medical information is there and that the words are such that they say it is my opinion rather than Mrs X tells me. The later has no weight in any appeal. You can then go on to add in the need for his peer friends because of previous bullying. How big is the school that you have been given a place at? If it happened to be an admission number of 60 you could also argue that your preferred school is a smaller school where there is less likelyhood of incidents and most pupils will know about your son's issues.

These are all bits to add on but the key issue and the one to major on at the appeal is his medical condition making the longer walking distance a major problem. Panels will be sympathetic to such an arguement if they have the option of admitting such pupils.

Thank you so much for your advice on all my threads. I have paid John Chard £225 to help and he hasn't yet been as helpful as you guys on here!!!!!
Their dragging on the waiting list front is very worrying. The preferred school had 280 NOR and he will know 50% of the reception class plus a few local children higher up the school. The allocated school has nearly 600 NOR and my son will know nobody there!!!

All of my correspondace with LEA and Head has been via email and so i have a full record. I know the person number 2 on the waiting list so if they jump to number 1 I will know they will have admitted a pupil off the waiting list (who should be my son!)

The LA believed they have had medical evidence reviewed by medical inclusion service, but when i spoke to that department they told me they only looked at accessibility inside the building (ie if they have a lift etc...)and not walking distancs (which is going to be the main problem for my son).

I have questioned this with the LA am still insiting someone makes the decision as to whether he be moved to the top of the waiting list. I know that the case has been referred to the top bods in Admissions and i am still waiting for a reply. I'm not sure how long is reasonable to wait?!

My medical evidence is throrough and sound. The problem i suppose that in order to be considered under the 'long term medical condition' category perhaps you need to show why one school meets the needs of the condition over another. Well apart from the size of school and bullying aspect it's not really the school that benefits him, it's where it is in relation to where we live. Tricky!

That aspect does make it trickier, so you will need to keep your wits about you. The arguments I anticipate from the panel will be:

a) Why can't you drive him there?
(if you can't drive, this needs to be explained)

b) Why can't he use a wheelchair?
(here I don't think it would be difficult to get a doctor to write a note that using a wheelchair is counter-indicated for someone with his condition, due to its psychological effect/risk of muscle wastage- that's what they're always telling us, anyway)

c) Why can't he use public transport?
(your job to think of this one)

So think about how you will counter those and focus,as prh says, on arguments connected with his condition. They will not for instance understand why most doctors think wheelchairs a bad idea for HMS. They will not have experience of a condition that requires you to walk a little, but never too far. To most people, mobility problems mean you have to sit in a wheelchair all the time- or else you can walk all the time. So all this will need to be explained.

Thanks again Cory.
I don't actully have a driving licence so couldn't drive if i wanted to! Husband leaves for work too early for any breakfast clubs so couldn't take my son in car.

Not sure my Health Pofessionals want to be badgered further. Do you think it would be enough to try and get hold of some research articles that state some walking is good for HMS and that wheelchairs are not the answer?
If not, do you think it's enough to say that i couldn't possible push a pushchair and a wheelchair at the same time ayway?

There are no bus routes to either school

Thanks for all your input

I think it's going to be more impressive if you can use a medical argument rather than a logistic one iyswim. So googling for articles sounds a good idea.

But it may be they never think of the wheelchair argument anyway, so that the question doesn't arise.

Sorry, new to this and all abbreviations- what does iyswim mean?

I'm a bit worried that if i find evidence that walking is actually good for him, then it will null and void my argument to go to our closest school to actually reduce walking distances? Any ideas?

Thanks

This is where you need a medic to explain the difference between some walking and lots of walking.

Look for the kind of paper that mentions "pacing", this is an important concept in dealing with this type of disorder. Or get your GP to write and explain that your ds needs to pace himself, to keep to a level of activity that keeps his muscles exercised without triggering a pain episode, as will happen if he overdoes it.

Might try and get my senior physio to write something along those lines.

Do you think i need to send any research articles etc that i might find in advance?

I would not bombard the panel with too much information. A letter from the physio explaining the situation I believe would be acceptable to any panel, a whole host of research articles to me is just going to confuse the panel and take the emphasis of the case you are presenting.

hello
wonder if anyone has any experience of appealing primary school admissions on infant class size grounds because of their own medical condition, rather than their child's?

In short, I had an injury during birth of second child, which left me with a lifelong condition with very unpleasant daily symptoms, which are worse in the morning, and which make pushing buggies long distance ill advised.

We applied for the 3 nearest schools and to our shock, didn't get into any of them. we didn't include info first time round on my condition as there's not been a problem with admissions for kids in our street before - it never occurred to me I needed to.

Learning Trust says I can appeal on grounds of my own condition, and I have letters of support from my GP & hospital nurse consultant.

But not sure what I can expect in relation to the appeal itself about this? We have a car but my husband needs it to get to work (he has to go in way before school start time). Even if I could have the car, the nature of the symptoms means a long car journey might be as much of a problem as a long bus journey.

Plus, how much detail will they want on my symptoms on the day? They're rather... ummm... embarrassing? I don't relish the thought of having to relay them in graphic detail, though if that's what it takes, so be it.

any thoughts most welcome. Apols for long post!

HelloSoph.

You might do better to start your own thread, to keep the two conversations separate, but anyway here are my thoughts ....

I don't want to discourage you but I am very surprised that the Learning Trust told you to appeal on the basis of your own medical needs. Your medical problems sound very unpleasant and you have my sympathies, but I can't see how they can be relevant to any appeal.

There are two issues here. The first is that, in an infant class size appeal, you have to provide compelling evidence, to overturn the assumption that class numbers should not go above 30. Essentially, you have to show that there has been a serious error which has deprived your child of a place, or that the admissions arrangements were so flawed as to be irrational. So difficulties with the school journey don't really enter into it.

The second issue is that, even where ICS rules don't apply, the arguments at an appeal have to be about the child and how the school will meet the child's needs. That is why, however sympathetic they may be to parents who (say) want a school that offers breakfast and teatime clubs to fit with their work, that can never be a reason for admitting.

That said, what exactly do your LEA's admission criteria say about priority for medical or social need? If that criterion is worded in such a way that it seems to cover parents' as well as children's needs, that may give you some leeway. And, anyway, you have nothing to lose by appealing so it's always worth a try.

If you have a letter from a consultant which confirms that you have a long-term condition, I doubt that the panel would want you to spell out what the symptoms are. However, what they may pick up on is your comment about your condition making it difficult to push a buggy very far. If the panel is inclined to probe (which in an ICS case they may well be, because the bar is set so high) they may ask whether you couldn't make some arrangement to get your child to school for the (I'm guessing) year or two until your younger child is out of the buggy. On the other hand, if the problem is the distance of the journey rather than the buggy-pushing, you need to explain this.

Another long post! Hope this helps.

Kimmy - I agree with Admission that a letter from a physio, talking about your child, will be more persuasive than a bundle of articles from medical journals or websites. However, if you are determined to provide articles then do make sure they are submitted in advance. The panel won't thank you for giving them page after page of medical information to read on the day and - worst of all, from your point of view, I imagine - may adjourn so that they can read them, creating further delay for you.

kimmy,

you can't push a wheelchair and a buggy for your younger child

good luck with the appeal

Agree with others, Kimmy, that letters from physio are far better than articles. If you do find yourself unable to get a letter there is some pretty basic informative stuff up on the Hypermobility Association forum though that you might find useful. Absolutely agree you shouldn't make the panel plough through heavy-weight research articles.

Hi Panelmember
thanks very much for your very helpful thoughts, and sorry to all about the misposting - I'm new to posting so didn't realise about separate threads!

I've started a new thread with the same message, but in response to your qu's, the Learning Trust definitely seemed to think it was ok to appeal on my own health grounds - in this case "that the decision wasn't one which a reasonable admission authority would make in the circumstances of the case", and the appeals guidance they've sent to me says that the panel "can have regard to fresh information which wasn't available when it made its original decison" provided it is persuasive and renders the original decision irrational. the argument therefore is that had the trust had the info about my condition at the time, they 'should' have given my daughter higher priority for one of the local schools. Tenuous, yes...

Re: buggy pushing, the problem is both distance to travel and weight of the buggy - the strain of pushing a buggy long distances will likely make the day-to-day symptoms worse, which would be unfortunate but maybe I'd have to live with that. More importantly, it may worsen the damage done, which which means even more problems over time - which is obviously more of a concern, since the damage is irreparable.

I'm not overly hopeful, it's true, but as you say, nothing to lose (apart from my dignity when I stand up to tell a panel about it, given the nature of the condition...!)