How easy to get a place in Year 1 in an oversubscribed school?

[strandedatsea]

We are currently in a real dilemna. We live overseas and at the moment the plan is to move back home in 2011, when dd1 will be ready to start Yr1. However, as my dh's job has been a little uncertain we decided to apply for a school place for her in reception starting this September at our local primary school, which (as our house in the UK is so close to the school) we got.

My worry is that this is a very popular school and if we give up the place now, we may never get her in there. It's not just that the school is a good one, it is also very local to us and we would like to be a part of the community around it. There are other good schools in the area but none within walking distance.

So I need to make a decision, give up the place and hope to get her into Year 1 or move home a year earlier than planned (which would probably penalise my dh at work).

Does anyone know how easy it is to gain a place in any year other than reception? I assumne it depends on another child leaving - or do even over-subscribed schools hold a place for circumstances like this (yeah right!).

As you've guessed, over subscribed schools don't hold places back for circumstances like this. Legally they aren't allowed to. If you give up your place in Reception it will be allocated to the first child on the waiting list. You will be left with whatever school has vacancies in Y1. This is unlikely to be a popular school.

Your daughter doesn't have to start school until the term following her 5th birthday. Depending on when your daughter was born you may be able to request a start in January or even after Easter next year but it is up to the school whether or not they agree to this. If they do that gives you a bit more leeway. However, if you delay beyond that you will lose the place. So I'm afraid you do have a hard choice to make.

The only thing I can suggest is that you move back with your daughter when it is time for her to start school and your husband moves back when he can sensibly do so without being penalised at work. However this is clearly not ideal and may be impractical for you.

Y3 would be easier as the class sizes can increase to 30+ (if you're in England, don't know about elsewhere).

Thanks, this is all very depressing. I have emailed the school and wait to hear their take on it. Unfortunately moving home without my dh is not really feasible as we live too far away (the Caribbean). My daughter actually turns five this september so she would need to start then, otherwise I might have considered moving home for a short time later in the year. I also have a two-year-old who is a lot of work so certainly would not want to be on my own for too long.

Actually having thought it through, she turns 5 in September so presumably could start at the beginning of the next term, ie in january, which might be worth thinking about. She would start in Reception here, so would not be behind when she started.

We live next to a very over subscribed school and were told that we wouldn't get DS1 in if we deferred his start for a year until Yr 1. We also lived 100 miles outside catchment during the application period but in the end managed to move before he started school which pushed us right up the waiting list and we got in because another child dropped out due to moving house.

However, having DS2 at the school now,in Yr 1, it seems that there are new children joining the class and others moving away quite a lot. You might not be able to count on a place but I expect, if you were prepared to wait that you would probably get your DD in at some point. Nerve wracking though.

I might be making this up but I have a vague recollection that if somebody moves into a school catchment during the school year they have to be found a space in their local school but I could be wrong. I am a governor at the neighbouring junior school and I think we were told this when discussing how there is some leeway in permitted class sizes to allow for this. It might be different for infants though.

Thanks Niecie. It was all so much easier in my day, we all just went to the local primary school and that was that. Now with league tables, everyone wants to get their children into the same schools hence we have problems like this

You have actually made a fraudulent application as you are not currently living in the property (said as fact, not judgement btw). If you live that close you would probably eventually get her in once you move back - if there wasn't an immediate place you would go on the waiting list and wait for the next available space hoping that nobody on the list lives closer or has higher priority (like a sibling). You need to decide if you're happy with that or not. The whole issue of school places often brings out the worst in people though so if anyone is aware of the situation you need to be prepared for someone to report it. I wouldn't think this would necessarily prejudice a future application once you were genuinely resident, but it could cause bad feeling.

Is there much movement generally in the area - people moving for jobs etc? My dd is at a very oversubscribed school and I know of 3 children due to leave over the summer term, moving to different parts of the country. (Out of a 90 intake). Those places will be taken by children currently on the waiting list. If your house is very close to the school then presumably you would be high on the waiting list - although it is a bit of a risk to rely on other children leaving. I think if I were you, I'd probably try to start her there in the January of Reception - if school agree - and have your husband either move 6 months earlier, or live separately for that time...good luck!

Niecie - I'm afraid you are wrong, although that may well be what you were told. The LA has to have a Fair Access Protocol. Amongst other things, this defines how the LA will find a place for a child who moves into the area outside the normal admissions round when the parents are unable to find a school because of a shortage of places. The usual practise in those circumstances is that the LA will give the child a place at the school best able to cope with an additional pupil. From the school's point of view they don't have a choice. They have to take any child the LA tell them to under the Fair Access Protocol even if they are already full up.

This helps the parents by ensuring that there will be a place but it doesn't mean that place will be in the local school. It could be at any school in the area.

prh47bridge - I think we are saying the same thing although you have more detail. I am talking from an individual's school point of view and you are talking from an LEA point of view. The schools are obliged to take a child regardless of whether they are full up as we both said - you say that is only if other schools can't take the child which is fair enough (although I don't think that applies to SN children).

Stranded - I still think, that of all the stages of school, you are more likely to get movement in the children changing schools in the infants so you stand a fairly good chance of getting in if you move back and are at the top of the waiting list due to your address. I am however, an optimist.

hiya in my son's class y5 about 11 children has moved since he started so you may be lucky that when you return to this country they will be a place. Good luck.

sunnydelight - we have not made a fraudelent application, my husband is a crwon servant on a posting overseas. the education authorities are well aware of our exact circumstances.

everyone else - thank you! I heard from the school today and they are being very nice about it but as I guessed can't give me any assurances that a place will defintiely come up. I think we will just have to keep our fingers crossed.....

Depends on the level of mobility in the school surely? DS's school was oversubscribed in Reception. He is now in Year 1 and 9 children have left (out of an intake of 60) in that time. Only 7 new ones have started, so they now have spaces in Y1.

If you could still take up the place during the same academic year (ie.return at Easter) then I think they have to hold the Reception place open for her. Sunnydelight, we were also able to make an application from outside UK (in fact we did this twice) as we had a local permanent address - the LA were perfectly aware of our circumstances and even mailed the application pack to us abroad.

LIZS - is that right? Even if she turns five in September (for the first time in her life I wish my daughter was a summer baby!!)? I have emailed the school asking whether we would be able to start in January but so far have not got a response. It might be an option, not ideal living so far apart but we might be able to work something out, eg dh comes home in say May instead of July which would only give us four months apart.

Anyway thanks again for all your input, it has been very helpful. I had no idea that schooling was such a stressful issue! But it was only the thought of giving up that place at our local school which made me realise how much I wanted it, eg the fact that it is minutes walk away, her friends will be there, we can get involved in the social life side of it etc. I realise I could do that at another school but it doesn't seem the same if it is a car drive away!!!

I'm afraid it isn't right that they have to hold the Reception place open and allow your daughter to start in January. It will become true next year. This year it is up to the school and LA whether or not they will allow this.

Thanks. I found this on the Gloucestershire County Council website:

If parents so wish, their child's entry can be delayed until the beginning of Term 3 or Term 5, provided that he/she starts in the term after their fifth birthday. Places will be held for them in primary schools but parents should notify the primary school offered of their intention to delay their child's entry.

So hopefully they will be amenable to this suggestion. Have emailed them to confirm....

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone, just some LEAs insist that you are "normally resident". An expat friend of mine had a reception place withdrawn when someone complained which caused much grief all round.

sunnydelight - don't worry, I was offended when I first read it and my fingers were burning but I read what you said again and realised you were not being antagonistic. I think it depends on why you are overseas. As my husband is a crown servant (eg working for a Government department) and also still pays his taxes in the UK, as well as keeping a house there that we will definitely move back to, we are totally legit. It may be different for people who have gone overseas for other reasons but I don't know enough about it.