Primary School Places / Appeal HELP

[shopred]

We have not been allocated any School (Primary) place for our DS for Reception class next September and failed by distance criteria.
We had to choose 3 schools and these are the closest to us and were chosen in closest distance order. The PAN is 60, 60, 90 respectively
We have only recently learnt that all places have been taken up and are currently 1st, 7th and 19th respectively on the waiting lists.
Admissions also advised of other schols that have limited spaces but these are just too far (3 - 4 miles).
Although being 1st on our 1st choice school gives us hope, it is still no help as we are worried sick. It seems like we live in a "dead spot".
We are intending to appeal but are obviously daunted by the "you are appealing under Infant School Size and class size prejudice" notes.
What are we to do in cases such as these whereby you cannot send your child into a local school in their introduction to school life?
Surely this not right, just because we do not fit into the admissions criteria.
My DS currently attends the nursery in the closest school and has been since last September.
He has settled down at this school and has made many friends. It seems like we have been let down by the LEA.
We also have another DD (Year 4) who is already on the waiting of the same schools (for 2 years now) but has to be dropped off / picked up each day to her "old" school approx 6 miles away in another neighbouring borough.
Although we are used to and have accepted this, the added thought of no school local place for our DS is just too much.
If we had known that we would not be able to get a local place for DS, then we would have applied to the same school as the one our DD goes to now (different borough) aswell.
If we did get a place for our DS locally, then we were (and are) prepared for sending them to 2 different schools but as it stands, DD has a school and DS no school.
This is because the local school starts at 9:15 and our DD's school starts at 9:00 giving us flexibility in school runs.
Can anyone please advise on how we should appeal (I have the appeal form, etc..) and if we have any realistic chance of succeeding.

Hello. What a grim situation to be in. The following is mostly C&P from my posts on other threads but I hope it will be of some help.

1. Get in touch with the admissions authority and check the distance at which the last place was awarded at each of your preferred schools. In some densely-populated boroughs, this can be just a couple of hundred metres.

1. As each of these schools admits children in multiples of 30, then (as you know) any appeal you submit will be heard under infant class size rules, which means that you have essentially to demonstrate that there has been a grave error which has deprived your child of a place. (Read the many other threads about appeals).

1. If you live closer than the last place awarded, you may therefore have grounds for appeal (but would need to confirm that this child was not admitted under some other heading, such as sibling).

1. Consider whether there are any other schools in the area which you would accept and get on the waiting list for these too.

1. Does your daughter's school have a place for your son?

1. Look at the admissions code and appeal code on the DCSF website.

Being in the nursery does not usually give any priority for admission to reception, as there may be very good reasons why local children don?t attend the nursery. Are you in London? It?s not unique to London, I know, but around here it frequently happens that schools aren't big enough to accommodate all the children for whom they are the nearest school. So, when places are allocated on distance, some children don't get places at their nearest school and are allocated places at schools which are farther away.

As this will be in infant class size appeal, the panel may well be sympathetic to your wish to send your child to a nearby school but cannot allow an appeal for this reason alone. Nor will your son's wish (or your wish on his behalf) to be with his friends from nursery cut much ice. The grounds on which you can win an appeal are very limited. The local school is (it seems) already full and your child can be admitted only if you can demonstrate that there has been some error or irrationality in the allocation process.

Once you have your son in a local school, his sister should move up the waiting list (assuming siblings receive priority in the admissions). And don?t feel despondent. Being 1st on the waiting list for a school with a PAN of 60 sounds pretty good. As you know, nothing is guaranteed, but unless there is an influx of people living closer to the school, you?re very likely to get a place before September.

Just one other thing to add. Have you appealed or when did you last appeal for a place at that school for your DD? You are allowed to appeal once each academic year (or if a major chance in circumstances before then). As your DD is Y4 the ICS rules don't apply.

I agree that at 1st on the waiting list, fingers crossed, your DS may have a place for Sept. As soon as you have a place for DS, stick an appeal in for your DD. (ALso getting DD in now would normally bump your DS up the waiting list as a sibling, but seeing as you are 1st already, you can't get any higher!)

The other alternate i would suggest is to appeal for the school where your daughter is. It does not matter that you did not apply you can still appeal. Surely it is better to be going to only one school.

I would if you have not done so get an appeal in for your daughter in the preferred school as PRH suggests. Get it now and it is in this school year, which gives you another potential crack in the next school year. This would be especially useful if son gets a place offered given they are 1 on the waiting list.

That wasn't me! But I would have suggested it if BetsyBoop hadn't got there first.

As Panelmember says, this will be an infant class size appeal. To succeed you need to show that a mistake has been made but for which your son would have been admitted. The most likely source of an error is that they got the distance measurement wrong. If the admission criteria specify straight line distance this is unlikely, although it is always possible they've measured from the wrong property. If it is shortest walking route or similar, find out what route the council has used to calculate your distance from the school. If you can identify a shorter route that meets the rules laid down by the admission criteria that would give you a possible case.

It is worth appealing even if you can't find any evidence of a mistake. Something may turn up during the appeal hearing which convinces the panel to admit your son. Even if your appeal is rejected your position will be no worse than it is today. But be realistic about your chances of success. Unless you can identify a mistake it is unlikely you will succeed.

I sympathise with your desire to get your son into your local school. Unfortunately the limit on infant class sizes means that can't always happen.

The good thing is that your son is currently 1st on the waiting list. That means you've got a very good chance of getting a place for September even if your appeal fails.

Good luck.

Hi all,

Many thanks to you all for the sound advice.
Our worry is that although our DS is 1st on the list, he may move down if other people move in closer.
We know another parent very close (very slightly nearer to school) to us with her DS going to the same Nursery and we think she may have pipped us to the last position.
We have applied (late application) for our DS in our DD's school but have not heard anything back other than getting receipt of application.
Should we then contact my DD's borough and say we want to appeal for our DS?
Also, We have not appealed for our DD at the local school and didn't realise we could.
She is currently 5th on the waiting list but obviously if we could get her in to the local school, that would be great.
If we did appeal for her now, do you think we we have a reasonable chance of winning with our logistic / current situation?

There is always a chance that your DS may move down the waiting list. However, being 1st on the list in May means he's got a pretty good chance of getting in.

You can't appeal for your DS to get into your DD's school until they have rejected your application. Until they've done that there is nothing to appeal against. Keep chasing the council for an answer.

Your chances of a successful appeal for your DD depend on the situation. If she is applying for a place in Y1 or Y2 it will be an infant class size case (given the admission numbers you have quoted) in which case it is unlikely to succeed. You would have to show that the council made a mistake in refusing to admit her which is unlikely in these circumstances. However, if it is for Y3 or later your chances are much better. Your logistics wouldn't win it, though. You would need to show why your DD's education is suffering because she can't attend her local school.

Just one word of caution on the advice you've already been offered. Panelmember suggests that getting your DS into your local school will move your DD up the waiting list. You need to check the admission criteria carefully. If it gives priority to children with a sibling at the school Panelmember is right. However, some schools only give priority to children with an older sibling at the school, in which case getting your DS into the school will make no difference to your DD.

Your daughter is in year4 so there will be no infant class size restrictions to applying and then appealing for a place at the local school. You do need to go through the process of formally applying for a place and then asking for an appeal.

I don't believe that on the reasons you have stated so far that any of your potential appeals are that strong.

However in the case of your daughter applying to the local school the panel has to balance in stage 2 the prejudice to the school of admitting another pupil against the prejudice to the pupil. It is quite possible that a panel may well accept that the admission authority have made their case to not admit but only just made their case. At that point the prejudice to your daughter only has to be low for the panel to admit and a case of not being able to get to 2 different schools could possibly be enough. I do think that PRH is right that you need more about why the preferred local school is better for your daughter in your case for admission. Of course there is as much chance that the panel will believe that the admission authority have a strong case not to admit at which point your case would not be strong enough.

Your case would definitely be helped if your son was offered a place from the waiting list before an appeal for your daughter. It is a balancing act as to whether you appeal now for your daughter and get it in this year or leave it to next school year when you might have a place at the local school for your son.

I think you need to pursue every opportunity on the assumption that a reasonable compromise can be made so that both your children are at the same school. Which school that is however is the question that currently has no answer.

... Just one word of caution on the advice you've already been offered. Panelmember suggests that getting your DS into your local school will move your DD up the waiting list.

I said that the older sibling should (not unconditionally would) move up the waiting list if the younger sibling got a place. I also pointed out that that would depend on sibling priority coming into play.

I have never heard of a school where sibling priority applies only in one direction and in every school I can think of it applies to older siblings as much as younger siblings. But, as ever, the chance of a successful application or successful appeal depends on a very careful reading of the school's oversubscription criteria.

Sorry for misquoting you Panelmember. My bad.

I raise it because I've recently come across a couple of LAs which specify older siblings. Lancashire, for example, has "children with older brothers and sisters who will be attending the school when the younger child starts."

That's very interesting, PRH.

Our LEA only stipulates siblings (which includes step- and half-siblings and children living as part of the family in any legal and formal arrangement). I always assumed that this was a pragmatic consideration - enabling children from the same family to go to the same school - and am quite surprised (and concerned) that other LEAs don't follow the same line.

Found out that we did not get place at DD's school (surprise surprise), Will appeal on this one as well as DS's local school place.
Not expecting any success at the appeals though as you have all pointed out. As Admission advises, I think our best route is to hope and pray that our DS gets a place from the waiting list and then appeal for our DD. Never had an inkling that we would not get at least 1 out of 3 closest schools!! Otherwise we obviously would have applied on time at DD's school and at least secured a place there?

I do not know the exact scale of the schooling problem here but it must be really bad as they sent me a list of all the schools oversubscribed and their distance cut off points.
There were no less that 33 schools oversubscribed out of 37!

Is it worth me finding out how many children did not get any places at all like us and also should they have offered us more than just 3 school choices as this may have at least got us into a more "reasonably local" school.

The borough in question is Redbridge if this helps. Sorry, but I know I am clutching at straws but really grateful for the advice given by all so far.

It is fairly common for councils to allow only 3 choices although some allow more. As you already applied to the 3 nearest schools, more choices wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome unless you'd chosen one of the 4 schools that wasn't oversubscribed.

The fact that the LA haven't offered you a place suggests that all schools in the area are full up. The rules are that they are required to offer you a place somewhere unless there are no places available.

Some places will almost certainly become free between now and September due to people going private, home educating or leaving the area.

You should certainly be chasing the LA and asking them how they plan to resolve your situation. They may be trying to get some schools to run extra reception classes this year or, if the number without places is low, they may simply be relying on enough places becoming free to solve the problem.

If you find there are a large number of children without places I would recommend that you take a look at this thread which concerns Wandsworth - apparently there are 421 children without places there. The OP in that thread has drafted an excellent letter to the LA about the situation which you will find near the end of page 2.

Just to relay some Good News. We received a letter on Saturday advising that our DS has been offered a place at our 3rd choice school. We were absolutely delighted at the news. Although not our top preference, 3rd is better than Nothing! What a relief to know that our DS now has a place and we do not have to go through the pain of appealing. We could appeal, but why waste the time and energy. We are just happy to have a local school and I think most people who do have places already should be grateful. Hopefully in time, DS may get into either choice 1 or 2 school from the waiting list.

We are not sure how we managed to get this offer as DS was way down on the waiting list for 3rd school? May have been the recent letters /emails to councillors / MPs / Admissions in the borough. Or may be they have taken an extra class? Don't know but I will try and find out in good time. If we were still in the position of no offer, my thoughts were on putting more pressure on council / going to press after appeal.

Anyway, just want to highlight to all other parents out there with no school offers, to fight as much as you can as ask for as much help as something may always turn up in your favour. I really do sympathise with parents in these situations as this has affected us for months! For me this has opened up my eyes at something which hopefully I can carry on with in terms of highlighting the issue of school places. I'm sure there are more troubled times ahead .. Secondary Education etc ..!!

Thanks to all on this thread (PRH, Admission, Panel, Betsy) for your expert advise. Much appreciated.