SATS 2009 papers what's the effing point?

[Falseacacia]

DD's primary school has been working them hard doing loads of SATS practice papers, SATS homework etc etc. We got an email from the Head Teacher last week saying they would be boycotting SATS. DD now has to sit a full week of the papers from last year - this will count towards the assessment that the teachers are doing instead of SATS. Problem is that the papers are readily available free to download off the internet and a good proportion of kids have used them for practice. The school seems to have deliberately stressed out the kids as much as possible, then gives them worthless exams to stress them out more. Why is the school doing this? Just to prove a point? Should I go down there and smash the head teacher's face in - I fucking feel like it. By the way the school and the LEA just love the league tables because they do well in them.

By Falseacacia Mon 10-May-10 19:16:01
Problem is that the papers are readily available free to download off the internet

Where?

emaths.co.uk - Mark McCourt's website.
Can't link but click on the Learn green button on it's homepage and it will take you to a page with the KS2 papers under the heading Revision on the right hand side.

My DD got one of the papers today. A large number of her classmates had done it before.

Thanks

Getting the pupils to sit an old paper is simply the headteachers trying to make themselves look better. They want to back the union in this fight over the KS2 SATs but on the other hand want to be seen to carry out some tests.

My reaction is that if they were so sure of their teacher assessment, then there is no reason to carry out any formal test. By carrying out the test they are saying that there is value in the tests being carried out.

admission all teacher assessments contain an element of testing whether it is the weekly spelling test or end of study quiz so I think your argument is completely off track.

I disagree, admission - I would say that the reason most schools are doing tests is because we are thinking of the children, actually. They have been geared up to do them since September(but hopefully not revising since then) - if we had told them then that SAT tests were cancelled, it wouldn't have been an issue.

However, industrial law means that any action needs to be within 4 weeks of a ballot - so any testing is because schools realise that, actually, behind the industrial law and the very important principle there are little lives to consider here. We don't want to mess them about. At this short notice, any kind of test is a compromise that's all about the children.

So why is our school testing them on a paper that quite a few (probably the majority by now) have already seen? It is not a compromise it is a farce. On the one hand the kids are told the SATS are really important and they do nothing but practice in school and then when they are all geared up to do it they can effectively cheat.
IF the head teacher cared about the kids they could have stopped the ridiculous stress and preparation as soon as the ballot results were known and not do any exams at all. It is not Ed Balls stressing the kids out but the Heads themselves and they have done it in a particularly cruel and calculated way.

Falseacacia, these are professional people who haven't taken anything close to industrial action in 120 odd years, but have been driven to this action because they passionately believe that SATs don't contribute anything meaningful to a child's assessment - and just the opposite, in some cases.

In our school, we asked the children what they wanted to do. They wanted an internal assessment and their SATs breakfast club! Hardly cruel and calculated.

SATs in their present form, and the way they are used, damage some children's education. See my post of Sun 09-May-10 10:11:09 on this thread, and others' pots, for a few elaborations on why SATs/league tables are not a good form of assessment.

Using a test result to contribute to teacher assessment brings it in line with Key Stage 1 assessment, admission and Falseacia, whereby the test result is just one source of evidence a teacher uses to make a judgement. If a child's test result is inflated for any suspect reason this week, and was not in line with the myriad of other information teachers have regarding children, then it would simply be discounted.

"they do nothing but practice in school"
Thsi should not be the case - Y6 have a right to a broad and balanced curriculum - if they do nothing but practice, I would take it up with the individual school.

Just one more point - if parents have downloaded past papers from the internet, then I wouldn't say it was the school stressing them out.

I am no particular supporter of SATS and I don't need a history lesson in teacher trade unionism. I am a professional, I am a union member and have taken industrial action in the past but have not played nasty little games and hurt kids in the process.

I was talking about the primary school that my DD attends. It does well in the league tables and the Head Master had no particular objection to SATS until now - in fact they have been going on about them all year, how important they are and how great the school looks if they do well. In fact we had a powerpoint slide show on their greatness!

The school have built them up to some great pinnacle that the children are supposed to scale - not the parents or the kids themselves.

Why would I lie? All it has been the last few weeks is SATS, SATS, SATS! My daughter has been in tears because of the stress the teachers have put them under and all the time, over the last few week the Head Master knew they would not be taking the real exams - that IS cold and calculated in my book! Especially to get an email with a couple of day's notice and parents without email had to hear it in the playground.

As for your last point. Quite obviously because the kids feel they have to do well, parents try to support them by obtaining resources. As the past papers are available to download it is perfectly understandable to use them. If the same papers are then used as a means of assessment it is grossly unfair. Incidentally the SATS marks have no bearing on the streaming at secondary school in this area. The school are putting the pressure on, not the parents. The school was incidentally rated as outstanding by Ofsted earlier this year! What a pile of crap!

It sounds to me then as if you have several issues with your dd's particular school, not all headteachers taking part in the boycott. I don't feel that other schools have 'played nasty little games'.

I didn't say you had lied - the school is indeed at fault if all your dd has heard is 'SATS, SATS, SATS'. It certainly isn't what any Y6 children have heard at my school, nor many others. It is, however, one of the reasons why I would like SATs to be scrapped in their present form.

Even a school with the lightest touch on SAT testing has a duty to ensure children are familiar with the test format. They will, therefore, encounter a least one past paper at school. I think it is unreasonable then that parents have the gall to complain when a school attempts to use a past paper that a child may have encountered at home. You seem to be seriously suggesting that teachers have no right to past test papers, that they are the domain of the parents alone!

No quite obviously I said that if teachers are trying to assess kids objectively they should not use material that is in the public domain. I support assessment but expect it to be carried out fairly and transparently.
Yes, I do have an issue with nasty lying hypocrites, of which the Head Teacher is one, not the school as such.

"if teachers are trying to assess kids objectively they should not use material that is in the public domain"

For the reasons I have stated, this isn't possible. You won't find a school in the country that doesn't use at least one past paper. What exactly do you expect schools to use to ensure children are familiar with the test format? Because I don't expect parents to use anything in particular.

You seemed to have completely missed the point. Yes, I would expect schools to use past papers for familiarisation - they did all the past ones in the school except 2009 -also papers produced by other providers.

I would not expect them to actually assess the kids on the basis of a past paper and pretend it is fair that some have done it before and some not. Which is what is actually happening.

ds2 is moaning they are too easy

They are not assessing the kids on the basis of a past paper. They are assessing the kids using a past paper as part of a wealth of evidence to contribute to teacher assessment. Which is what every school in the country does at least once during Y6 (hopefully no more than twice at the most).

I have no objection to teachers using a variety of methods to assess.

What I do object to is the lying and deception. They are boycotting SATS yet treating the 2009 papers as if they are the real 2010 ones, stressing out the kids, telling them they will be assessed on them. As far as the kids are concerned they are being encouraged to treat them as the real exams. DD has even been given a maths paper to do for homework tonight - to prepare for the important SATS test tomorrow!

For god's sake, no one has lied or deceived anyone. Most schools are boycotting the tests yet treating the 2009 ones as the real ones because the children want to do them.

If those children had been told in September that there weren't any tests, there wouldn't have been an issue. But because the ballot was less than 4 weeks ago, and because heads realise that behind industrial law there are actually little lives to consider, this is a compromise. If we discounted the children's feelings, and were given a straight choice, most teachers would do away with everything remotely test-like this year.

"DD has even been given a maths paper to do for homework tonight - to prepare for the important SATS test tomorrow! "
Kick off then! There's no way I would have set a Maths paper in any SATs week, real or otherwise, and if it was my ds there's no way he would be doing it.

Well Feenie, unfortunately my DD does not go to your school! The kids want to do the real ones not last years - they were given no say, neither were the parents, I would have preferred them not to do them at all, hence my original post.

I have now complained to the Governors.

I have talked with many schools who are not doing SATS but last years, as yours are Falseacacia, but none of them is giving extra work .
We ARE doing the SATS, but ds has got absolutely nothing to do at home workwise.
I think your head has handled the situation badly - it will be interesting to see what kind of reply you get from the governors. Is it just you, or are other parents up in arms?

the advice that the National Governors? Association (NGA) gives on its website,
which clarifies that Governors should not get involved in the administration of the tests if the head teacher is boycotting them:
??The duty to arrange the tests falls directly on the head teacher and is clearly an
operational matter. If the boycott goes ahead the governing body should not get
involved in operational matters and should not get involved in the administration of
the tests. The governing body can reasonably enquire of the head teacher (assuming
your head teacher is a member of the NAHT/NUT) what action they will be taking and
what steps are in place to administer/manage the tests. The governing body cannot
force the tests to be carried out, and should not try to do so, but it may remind the head teacher of the government?s view of the boycott?s legalities??

deaddei - other parents have complained and at least one had a right go at the Head, generally there is culture of not complaining at the school even if parents are mad about stuff.

I think the parents would have been more supportive if we had been informed, even consulted at an earlier stage - not told at the last minute and given no information on what to expect and how the kids are now being assessed.

School postponed the test that was due to take place yesterday, and the kids told they would sit an unseen paper instead.

But this isn't possible, according to you, Falseacacia - since all past papers are in the public domain.

Fair enough that governors do not get involved in operational matters, but Governors do have the duty to provide constructive challenge and in this situation, it is entirely reasonable that the Governors seek an explnation from the Head about why this was handled in this way. Head Teachers have to be accountable and Governors also have a duty to report to parents. If parents are complaining, of course that doesn't give the governors the right to intervene, but if they believe the Head has not handled this particularly well, then they are entitled to say so and at least provide the parents and children with an apology if that's what's merited.