Faith applicant on doorstep of CofE school turned down!

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My husband and I regularly attended our local CofE for the 2 years prior to applying for a place for our dd (who was also christened there) at the faith school affiliated with the Church which is about quarter of a mile from our house apart from 3 months last summer when our house was being renovated and we moved out. I was very honest on our application form about this period of time when we didn't attend (because we moved too far away to attend) because our priest retired around the same time and I imagined the form going to a temporary replacement who didn't know us. As it happened the form went to the church warden who knows us and is a governor at the school. He told us we shouldn't have any trouble getting a place. When I went to see the school in November I was told by the head that they'd never been in a position where they'd had to turn down a faith applicant but turned down we have been and when I called to find out why, I was told by the school secretary it was because of this 3 month period that we weren't in attendance at the church! I feel like we're being penalised for being honest. Should I appeal? Am I likely to get anywhere or is a case of once it's decided that attendance has not been consistent enough that's it?

Did you attend another church in that time? I know for catholic you'd be expected to go unless ill or on holiday.

what do the admissions criteria actually say regarding attendance - does it have to be at that church or will any church do? Did you attend a church at you temporary location?

Do you really want your child to be part of a school that penalises people for honesty?

No we didn't attend another church -I was in my first trimester of pregnancy and sick as a dog so church was the last thing on my mind then. I can't really say that though- sounds like an excuse. Policy states you can attend another church to give continuity in the 2 yr period. Thing is it is the best school local to me both in terms of Ofsted (I know this is not the be all and end all) and general local opinion. It's also my nearest -I can walk to it which counts for a lot too.

The trouble is your dh could have taken your ds to church if you were ill. I guess in the eyes of teh church having mornign sickness shoudlnt stop you recieving mass for 3 months.

it is not necessarily "penalising for honesty" it depends what the admissions criteria say - the school have no choice but to follow these to the letter, in order to be fair to all applicants.

Our school, for example expects a minimum of fortnightly attendance barring illness/holidays, so if you didn't go to Church for three months you wouldn't qualify under that criteria, but would be placed in a lower one. However if you had attended another Church for those 3 months at your temporary address(and got a reference to prove it) you would still be in the higher category.

The criteria do vary from school to school though, hence my question.

Are you on the waiting list? you might still get in.

Shame your dh couldn't have taken your dd to another church during that time if you weren't feeling up to it.

Agreed Rainbow & BB. Question is where do I go from here? The head is going to call me back tomorrow supposedly. We've been going regularly since we were back in our house so I'm gutted. Makes me think I should have kept quiet about being out of it for 3 months because we are genuine. We might not be the most devout but our attendance does average once a fortnight and we do get involved in church community activities. Trouble is in Greenwich borough there is a lot of competition for good schools.

first make sure you are on waiting list & find out where you are on it.

next question, is it an "infant class size" appeal? (typically classes of 30 or multiples of 30)

If so it's much harder to win an ICS appeal than an "ordinary" appeal.

Always worth appealing though, you have nothing to lose (worst case you end up in same position you are now) - so long as you go in with reasonable expectations of your chances.

I'd go for the sympathy vote - we are faithful Christians, and have been for x years, but what with terrible m/s and stress of house renovations etc then life got in the way for a little while. Stress all the extras you do at Church etc & get a letter from current priest about your continuing involvement. Add in loads about why a Christian education is so important etc.

Thanks for the advice everyone. BB I'll find out about the waiting list. I'm not sure if it's a class size thing -presumably I should ask the head when she calls me back. I do know from last years figures however that there were 48 places and 114 applicants so class size will probably be an issue again this year. The paperwork from last year also tells you that none of the appeals made were successful. Like you said tho BB nothing to lose by appealing.

Why didn't your DH go to a different church while you were away? I ask because I can imagine that the school might see this period of non attendance as an indication that church isn't that important to you and you were only attending for admissions purposes...

minipie is right - you need to prepare an answer to that question (either in your appeal papers, or be ready for it at the hearing, because it may well be asked)

You have your "excuse" (and I know how debilitating bad m/s can be first hand ) but you need reasons why your DH couldn't attend.

as PAN of 48 isn't necessarily an ICS appeal - depends what happens in future years - do they have any mixed year classes? I'm guessing YR is two classes of 24? You need to know what happens in Y1 & Y2 (juniors not so important) - the head should be a=ble to tell you if it's ICS anyway.

If there are 48 places, they can't have ICS issues as will prob have 2x 24. ICS kicks in when a class exceeds 30. I would go for the appeal and stress that those 3 months were v difficult due to X, Y & Z (not being well, not having another suitable church nearby, etc). Your record is good otherwise so it is worth trying. They won't know WHY you have a gap, only that you have one - so you need a chance to explain.

Might not work but then again it might. And you can always argue on the fact that 24 is less than 30 ICS number. Get your hands on school plans (from the Council) to calculate size of classrooms etc. PM Me if you need more assistance. I have been there and it was pretty horrific, but then again we won.

Minipie DH and I were living separately as he had to be near work and he did go a couple of times in that period but not with DD I took DD to stay with my Aunt. The truth is we could have gone to their local catholic church but I was in all honesty quite debilitated with morning sickness to the point where I couldn't brush my teeth til midday every day. However I feel embarrassed citing this as a reason because it sounds like a bit of a crap excuse. Can I say I didn't want to go to a Catholic church because we're CofE? BB there are 2 classes in each year group from what I can remember on the visit. Globaljen did you apply in a london borough?

48 is one of those awkward admission numbers for schools. If they have 2 reception classes of 24, then the number they will have when they are full in year1 and year2 is 96 which can only meet the infant class size regs by having 4 classes of 24 in the two year groups, any other arrangement will be over 30 in a class. There can therefore be no future prejudice for infant class size regs. The down side is that the school will probably have 6 classes for years 3 to 6 with 32 in each class.

Any appeal is therefore not infant class size and I would therefore definitely appeal. What exactly does the faith requirement say in the admission criteria because that will define whether you meet the criteria. The school obviously decided that you did not but it needs to be checked. Can you post it on here?

Another point in your favour to bring up at appeal and cause some minor embarassment is your statement that "As it happened the form went to the church warden who knows us and is a governor at the school. He told us we shouldn't have any trouble getting a place. When I went to see the school in November I was told by the head that they'd never been in a position where they'd had to turn down a faith applicant but turned down we have been" Both of these statements could be construed as a being a partial offer of a place by someone in authority at the school. The regulations are clear that if such an offer is made by a school official then that is grounds for admission. It is not that clear cut as an offer but I would actually suggest you mention this tomorrow when the head rings you. If they accept that they may have inadvertantly given you that belief then they may feel honour bound to reconsider your application.

I spoke to the school secretary today and she got my supplementary form out and told me that because I had said that I had been attending the church for the required 2 year period prior to application at the school EXCEPT for the 3 months when we were away whilst the house was being renovated it's not actually 2 years at all despite the fact that we continued attendance when we moved back in. My husband continued his attendance but we didn't go as a family. Perhaps I should have said that on the form too. We were definitely told by the church warden that we'd have no issues getting our daughter in. He even gave us a form with his details on it and ticked the box confirming our attendance for 2 years. I did not submit this because I'd already filled one out months before and thought that it would go to him for signature.

If your dd was christened at this church, but you only started going to church the prerequisite 2 years before application, then I have admit that, to me, the Ofsted report is more important to you than your faith...so I have to say, I don't have much sympathy for you. Sorry.

Portofino my dd was only christened here when she was 2.5yrs old. My DH and I both have church backgrounds and went to faith schools but like a lot of people we didn't go to church regularly through out our teens and twenties. When we started our family in our thirties we thought long and hard about whether or not we wanted to 'return to our faith' for want of a better expression as we'd ignored it for a long time. We decided it was in our interests as a family for a number of reasons. We do believe in God and continued to attend services with our families before our children were born. Both of us like being involved in community & voluntary activities, we like the disciplined approach in faith schools. My daughter genuinely likes going to church and has made her own friends there so much as it might seem that we are only interested in school stuff we're not. We attend, support and get involved.

I would suggest you appeal. You want at the least to make sue your dd is top of the waiting list. Is the appeal organised by the school or the LEA? Get everyone (including the ex-vicar) to write letters of support. Get a letter from your GP about the morning sickness.

And good luck!

Contrary to what Mummytime says, appealing will make no difference to your daughter's place on the waiting list. The panel can decide to admit or not admit. They can't alter the waiting list.

Having said that, I still think this is worth an appeal. The worst that can happen is that you lose and are in the same position as you are now.

I would definitely appeal for the reasons I stated previously and especially include the form which the Church warden ticked as you having met the 2 year criteria.

As a church warden they would have been considered an official of the church and they are legitimising your claim for having been a church attender for 2 years. Unless the admission criteria specifically excludes the Church Warden from making this determination then there is an arguement that you were given good reason to believe that you would meet the criteria. You are perfectly entitled at appeal to submit evidence that substantiates your belief that you would have met the criteria and therefore been offered a place.

To me this is a good case to take to appeal but as always it is up to the panel to make a decision.