oversubscribed church school, doesn't go to church but child got in? how could that happen?

[leaningright]

OK, I am a little bitter and baffled...

Lovely little church school, one form entry, knew it was a long shot as huge sibling intake this year (in Feb was told around 19), but we applied as we at least satisfied the church going criteria etc but it seems rules can be bent!!!

I know for a fact the child and parents do not go to church or are committed christians but they got in.

Father has a prominent position job wise, could that be it? does that happen? is it allowed?? I mean if the father knew the headmaster or the governers can that sway admissions in a CofE school? I guess it can...

Takes the piss out of the system really, politics and religion typical...

Did you not get in?

No, but ok about it as last year there were only 4 places from our Parish so knew it was a long shot, but not ok about hearing that someone else did that doesn't go to Church or are Committed Christians.

Our local very oversubscribed church school has 7 places out of 30 allocated for non-church goers

Another possibility is that the child has a statement that names the school.

The child has no statement and non church goers is last on the admissions criteria.

Unfortunately this underpins my belief that Life is unfair and you have to play the system for all its worth.

Rules cannot be bent.

There are a number of reasons why a non-church child can get into a church school. It all depends on the admission criteria. It certainly shouldn't be because of the father's position or him knowing the headmaster or governors. If they admitted on that basis they would be wide open to appeals and/or legal action.

In my own area there are as many sets of admission criteria for CofE schools as there are CofE schools - every one is different. Some limit the number of places allocated on the basis of church attendance. Some admit anyone who lives in the parish first and only look at church attendance for those living outside the parish. Many admit non-Christians within the parish ahead of Christians from outside the parish. Some prioritise those attending the CofE whilst others will accept worship at any church in Churches Together. And so it goes on. Take a look at the admission criteria for this school and you will probably see why this child got priority.

If the school got this wrong and the child shouldn't have been admitted that may be the basis for an appeal. However, to win you would need to show that your child would have been admitted if the school had operated the admission criteria properly.

i'm sure that in our local church school, they have to take so many children who live within catchment area regardless of religion or church attending basis....

maybe thats why they got in?

You know for a fact that the child is not fostered / Looked After, has no SEN (many are hidden), and no other disability (again many are hidden) that would put them in a priority category?

if so, then very unfair toyou, and you could try appealing, because if due process has not been followed then your appeal would be upheld.

But unfortunately if you want to benefit (as a church goer) from a system that offers privelidged entry to certain sections of the community over others, then you are also at risk from the self same schools which operate admissions systems which are different from the central community school system.

my DS has special social reasons for going to our local school and we applied on that basis. No-one who didn't know us well would know what it was as I'm not prepared to discuss it openly.

The child (or the parents) may well have a specific reason for being admitted ahead of anyone else. Just becuase you don't think the child has any SEN doesn't mean they haven't any, or another specific need to be at this school.

You don't need SEN to get a preferential admission you can have specialsocial or medical needs which that school can fulfill. You usually need a professionals letter supporting your claim (doctor/social worker etc) and you need a very convincing reason to be given a preference but quite commonly its the kind of thing which isn't visible.

There is no admission criteria that is legal that is based around the parent's job or position etc. The child should have got in on the basis of the admission criteria only but then sometimes strange things happen on admissions, especially if you are an MP or minister's child!

If you appeal it has got to be about why you did not get a place and why you want a place, rather than others getting a place. By appealing you will get some general detail on how many got in under what category which may make you even more concerned about this or possibly suggest a reason for the admission.

How on earth can you know for sure the child does not have a statement?

If you're not planning to appeal, why are you wasting your time worrying about someone else's child?

I thought that in some circumstances a parrnt's occupation coudl be taken into account e.g. a Social Worker who's clients have children at a particular school would be able to send their children to a different school even if they didn't fit the criteria.

Titchy - The short answer is no.

The Admission Code specifically prohibits admission authorities from even asking about a parent's occupation. The only exception is that boarding schools are required to give priority to children with parents in the Armed Forces and children with a "boarding need", which includes some occupations where the parents will spend much of the year overseas.

In the situation you describe, even if it justified the Social Worker needing to send their child to a different school it would NOT justify admission to a particular school. If the Social Worker felt unable to accept the place offered they would have to find an alternative school with places available for their child. No school could admit the child simply because the parent is a Social Worker.

Any school which gives priority to children on the basis of their parent's occupation is clearly in breach of the law (with the exception of boarding schools as mentioned above).

Not sure what your church school's criteria are, but the one nearest to us stipulates that you must attend a certain church. Other nearby churches don't qualify, so if you're putside the specific parish and Christian you are no more likely to get in than a nearer child from a non-faith family. An RC friend of mine was told 'Don't even bother.'

All this can/can't be in our gang stuff set up in the name of God makes me prefer our community school even though we are church goers. Lip service to faith is so off-putting.

It is not allowed that occupations can be used to give priority on the admission criteria. However assuming that it is not an infant class size case, anybody with a sensitive occupation (social worker and police especially) can cite this in their personal reasons for not wanting a particular school or schools.

I would always be open to an argument that they did not want their child to go to a specific school or schools, because they had such an occupation in the locality, as protection for their children. However that is not the same as wanting a place at the best school in the district when there are other local schools with places where there would be no conflict with the parent's occcupation. Each one would be very dependant on the individual circumstances and also written confirmation from their place of work

Do they live nearer to the school? Have you misunderstood the admissions criteria? Do you go to the church or just a church?

Churchgoers living and worshipping within the Parish get first dibs at DS's oversubscribed C of E primary, but most places are allocated on the basis of distance. So a child attending the school's associated church but living a mile away would be a lower priority than a child not attending the church but living 500 metres away.

(assuming the dc living a mile away was outside of the parish I should have said)

When you say 'the' child.... surely there are 11 children who got a place if there were 19 children with older siblings? harder to know the background of 11 children I think

You need to get a copy of the schools admissions policy. We got turned down for a place at our catchment CofE school 200 metres from our house. We appealed and lost. As long as the school can prove that they have followed the admissions procedure and that if they didn't that your child would have secured a place, (as opposed to another child), then there's nothing you can do about it.

I was told there was no official admissions criteria for our CofE school.

If the parents of this child paid a sum of money to the church thats probably how he got in. Not fair no, but its not the frst time a church has been hypocritical and it wont be the last!

Don't think being a minister child gets you into a church school. My friends DC didn't get a place at the local church school as his family didn't attend the church named on the admissions criteria, but they couldn't attend as his father was minister of another local church! They appealed to the Bishop, but it made no difference and many people who had only just started going to church for a school place got in.....

"I was told there was no official admissions criteria for our CofE school."

There are offical admissions criteria for every school - not necessarily church/faith related admissions criteria, but there will most definitely be admissions criteria.

I doubt the school will have broken the rules to give a church donor a place either - IME they go out of their way to be totally fair & above board these days - as kitten's example shows!

OP

Have you double checked the entry criteria and are sure that you have them right

If so

Yes it is possible that there has been jiggery pokery, religious schools are known for it, although they were told to clean up their act after that study a year or 2 ago found out that they were not adhering to the rules.

You could always appeal if you think something has gone awry.