no school offer stoke newington help please

[ellestone]

I live in stoke newington and have not been offered a school place for my ds. Our 1st choice was .14miles away 2nd was .21miles and 3rd .47 miles. I don't understand how this could be real! It seems impossible to conceive that this has happened as we are so close to the first 2 choices. I am praying that there has been some sort of error on part of the learning trust but even if that is so the places have been allocated. What chance have I got. Does this seem odd to anyone or is that how bad it really is in hackney to get a place. Does anyone know if i can request to see my application file from the learning trust to see for myself what happened because if there is a mistake would they even admit it? if anyone can help in anyway please I would be so grateful.
many thanks ellestone

are you saying that you haven't been offered a school place at all, or just not one of the 3 that you asked for?

sorry I mean I was not offered any of my preferred schools from my application. I have been given a list of 8 primary schools which I can apply for but half of those are religious and i am non denominational so I wont get in. The only one of those that are left that i am sure to get into (due to distance) is Princess may primary and the people I know with kids there and they are all very unhappy and frustrated. If anyone has any info about princess may that would be helpful.
many thanks ellestone

Hello.

I really ought to get off MN and do something else, but very quickly....

1. Does your LEA use catchment areas or is admission decided on distance to school (after looked after children, social and medical need and siblings)?

1. Get in touch with the admissions authority ? is that what the Learning Trust is? ? and check the distance at which the last place was awarded at each of your preferred schools. In some densely-populated London boroughs, this can be just a couple of hundred metres.

1. If each of these schools admits children in multiples of 30, any appeal you submit will be heard under infant class size rules, which means that you have essentially to demonstrate that there has been a grave error which has deprived your child of a place. (Read the many other threads about appeals).

1. If you live closer than the last place awarded, you may therefore have grounds for appeal (but would need to confirm that this child was not admitted under some other heading, such as sibling).

1. Not all VA schools require families to be churchgoers. The one at which I?m a governor, for example, reserves 1/3 of its places as ?community places? which don?t require church attendance and in fact allocates roughly half of its places as community places because it can?t fill all the foundation places.

1. Check where you are on the waiting list for your preferred schools ? if they are big schools with big intakes and you?re near the top of the list, you may well get a place before September.

1. Otherwise, you need to find some sort of place for your child, unless you intend to home educate. Go and visit the schools on the list, as you may find that the impression you get from a visit is not what you get from local gossip.

Admissions are based on distance. I will take all of your advice it has been really helpful thank you so much. I am going to check out the religious schools criteria a well. This forum is a godsend as I was pretty much having a nervous breakdown since I got the results from the learning trust on sat morn. I am sure they do it over the bank holiday weekend to torture people! It helps so much to know you are not alone in all this. Man thanks ellestone

It is upsetting not to get the school you wanted but if you keep calm and follow up all the options I'm sure you'll be able to sort something out - even if it's not what you originally envisaged.

Come and update us once you've spoken to the admissions people and seen the schools. There are a few people with experience of admissions appeals here.

ellestone, I've heard none too good things about Princess May, but have no experience. Shacklewell's not far from there and is good - have you thought of there, or is it full too?

Ellestone,
You are very close to your first two preferences. As community schools the admission criteria is the normal one of looked after children, medical, siblings and then straight line distance. I am therefore slightly surprised that you did not get an offer of a place if your distance of 0.14 miles is correct - that is 250 yards.

You need to find out exactly why you did not get a place offered to you, which should be in the letter from the LA. If nothing else you must surely be near the top of the waiting list for places that are turned down, so all is not lost.

If the information you want is not in the letter from the LA, then email the admission office and keep at them to give you the information.

Hackney is bursting this year, I know of lots if people in your position. I would try and find some others and all pick the same best of the other list. Huge sympathies it is a nightmare.

Ellestone,

The admission criteria is looked after children, children subject to a Child Protection Plan, siblings then distance.

As Admission says, it is surprising that you didn't get a place living just 0.14 miles away from the school. If the LA has made a mistake and your child should have been admitted they have to give you a place, although you will probably have to go through an appeal in order you get it.

If the distance you quote was given to you by the LA, you need to know the distance for the last child admitted. If the distance wasn't from the LA you need confirmation of the distance they used. They have to give you that information even if it reveals that a mistake was made.

Being non-denominational won't stop you getting in to a religious school. If they have a place available when you apply they have to give it to you. If I understand Hackney's Primary Schools Brochure, all the schools they have told you about have places available at the moment. It isn't clear how they operate this so it may be first come, first served.

If there is no waiting list for the school,that is it is not full in the year group, then in theory anybody can request a place at the school and it has to be granted. However I would suspect that could rapidly change if there is a real shortage of places in Hackney. Whether they will do this or put everybody on a waiting list and only allocate in admission criteria order after everybody has had a chance to get back to them I don;t really know.

So maybe the answer to start with is try and grab a place at whatever school you think is most appropriate off the list and see what reaction you get.

ellestone - phone up the LT and find out where your child is on the waiting list. I also live in Hackney and only put 1 school on the form as we live close and all the neighbour's kids go there. So I was very surprised when son was not offered a place at first. But by the time he started school people had dropped out to move to Norfolk or Dorset or similar and he got a place no probs.

Thank you for all your advice everyone. I have spoken to the learning trust today and they said the last place allocated ( of my 2nd choice school) based on distance was .243miles and apparently they say i live .250miles. What is that like a half a yards difference! The direct gov school finder said I was .21 miles away from the school but the LT said that their mapping system was far more accurate.

It's actually 12 yards. Pedant mode off...

That's very tight. I think it may give you grounds for appeal. Their admission criteria specify that they measure to the main gate of the school. However, they don't specify where they measure from. Is it the front door, the back door or some other point on your property? If they measured from the point on your property that is nearest to the school there's nothing to appeal. However, if they measured from somewhere else and the somewhere else is at least 12 yards further away from the school than the nearest point on your property you may be able to argue that they have got the wrong measurement. That still won't help you if measuring the last place allocated on the same basis is still closer to the school but you have no way of knowing that.

I would ask the council where on your property they set the datum for measurement.

By the way, the Directgov shoolsfinder measures from the central point in the postcode. The council should be measuring from your property which will give a more accurate measurement.

what about your 1st choice OP? sounded as though you were even closer there - where was the last place offered there?

The thing to remember is that there is a lot of churn in London schools - in my son's school one third of the pupils change each year according to the head. So, ellestone, I would of thought your son has a good chance of being offered a place. My son was offered one in about a month or so - obviously after the first round of people turning down a place. And if he doesn't get a place in your chosen school one will probably come up in the next year. In my son's school which is popular children were joining throughout reception & year 1 who had been waiting since the start. I would have thought appealing is not likely to be successful but just waiting your turn will.

Hi, I just read your message and I have been touched by your case as your situation happened to me last year by the same school. Stoke Newington School is a very popular school as it is one of the best school in Hackney. According to my experience I can tell you that if you wish to appeal for your child go for it but you need to have a really strong case. When I won the appeal for my son last year, it was not based on distance as I knew in advance that I would be unlikely to win (I live 1 mile from SNS)then I decided to focus my case on medical condition even my son was in good health. So, I went to the doctor and explained him that he was distress, could not sleep and eat etc.. and he was experiencing a depression following the refusal of the school(it is difficult for doctors to check mental state, they can only trust you). The doctor wrote me a medical letter explaining that for the sake of his health my son had to be admitted within his preferred school. The doctor letter was very helpful, plus of course I had to add with it a long and convincing letter telling them how my son was suffering because he has not been accepted, that he lost his group of friends (sorry to tell but only imaginative chat)but at the end I won the appeal even though I did not attend the panel. However you will have more chance if the learning trust had made a mistake, your child would be definitely placed at the first in the waiting list. They call it maladministration. Believe me or not but this happened to my son for the second choice school which the learning trust forgot to assess it in the application form. So in total I had Stoke Newington school (which I opt for) but also the second school choice when both were previously denied. So appeal and fight for it you might win. As for Princess May school, I heard positive things about it.
Good luck !
Zazou

Zazou,
I think you were extremely lucky to get such a sympathetic panel. You certainly would have been unlikely to have been offered a place based on what you have said in the post in my area unless the evidence of depression was much stronger.

Zazou

I hope I have misunderstood you. You appear to be saying that, although your son was in good health, you told the doctor that he was depressed because you knew the doctor would accept your word and provide a letter. Your own letter said that your son was upset that he had lost his group of friends, but this was "only imaginative chat".

I agree with Admission and Panelmember. If this story is true I am appalled at the blatant deception by Zazou, the willingness of the doctor to write such a letter without properly checking the mental state of the child and the decision of the panel to admit on the basis of such a weak case.

Exactly, prh47bridge. You have said what I was thinking.

In future appeals which hinge on medical needs, there will now be a niggling doubt at the back of my mind about whether the 'evidence' of those needs has been fabricated in order to hoodwink the panel. That saddens me.

What an appalling story Zazou. How do you think other parents who had an equal 'right' to the school you liked feel? Any tactics fair to get your kid into the 'right' place ? It's a system with rules. Stick to them or move somewhere else.

Hi ellenstone I have the exact situation in stokie, none of my schools had spaces, I'm on number 10 for William Patten, 2 for Benthal and 3 for Shacklewell. Even though we're non-religious I put down st matthias as alternative but really hoping to get into one of the above (well I probably have no chance at WP). My distance to WP is 0.21 miles, the last person to get admission was 0.18. I'm further away (0.4 or 0.5 I think) from the other two but they are slightly less in demand I guess. I was bumped from number 1 to number 3 at Benthal, now up to number 2- seems to be some movement so worth checking in regularly with learning trust. Have you found you're high any of your waiting lists?

Ellestone - sorry to hear your of your distressing situation. Seems crazy that you didn't get into your nearest school of .14 miles away!! can I ask which school that is that has a catchment that tiny? Is it a single form entry school (though I only know of one of those in N16). I know the WP catchment is really tight this year and Jubilee too, it seems.
Good luck - I'm sure you'll get something you're happy with eventually.