Assessing Child's Nearest School for junior schools vs all-the way trough schools

[fabhead]

Where we live (Surrey) there are some primary schools that are infant only 4-7, some junior only 7-11 and some all the way through 4-11. For all of these the admissions criteria is LAC, SEN, Medical, Siblings, Child's Nearest School, Other (distance). All the schools are over subscribed and you basically don't stand a chance as an Other i.e next furthest away once all the children for whom it is the nearest school are in.

We currently live very near a junior school which I would like ds1 to go to (it is his nearest shcool at the moment). Last few years all sblings and all child's nearest school children have got in and a few others. Having just been an other for the infant schools and failing to get any places I wouldn't risk that. We are thinking about moving and trying to work out how far away we can go while still keeping this school as the one which will be counted as child's nearest school.

My question is this: Will SCC only count other 7-11 junior schools in this assessment? i.e schools with an intake at 7 which he could possibly go to at this time without having to see if there was a place outside of normal intakes. Or will they count other all the way through primary schools that might be nearer even though no official intake at 7?

Eg we have found a house where the nearest school that comes up on the GIS is a 4-11 all the way through primary school and the school we want comes up second by 20m. Would he still get the child's nearest school point for this school for junior admissions at 7 for year 3? Logic would say yes but having tangled with them in the past for infant admissions I would like to know for sure.

Their website says:
. For 7+ & 8+ admissions - Please note that some of the schools listed do not have a separate intake at Year 3 or 4 and will not be assessed as your nearest school. Please contact the schools to find out if they have any places before applying.

Fabhead,
You need to look much more carefully at the admission criteria for the schools concerned because some definitely do not have the admission criteria you have given. The information is on the surrey cc site under admissions.

I think you are tending to confuse the different schools and what can happen. Primary schools are from 5 through to 11 and the admission arrangements therefore are set up for entering the school at reception age (5). If you try to enter the school at Junior age then the probablity is that teh school year will already be full.

Infant and Junior schools tend to work in tandem, so that where there is an infant school there tends to be a junior school relatively close by. Most pupils will transfer from the infant school to the junior school and having a quick look at the Surrey site certainly those Junior schools that I looked at had an admission criteria that said "pupils currently attending X infant school" at a high priority. You need to find the junior school near to you on the surrey admission documents and find which infant school it is tied to. Obviously you still need to get a place at the infant school and need to check what their admission criteria is. I don't think your issue will be getting into the nearby junior school it will be getting into the partner infant school.

This junior school is definitely not officially linked to any of the feeder infant schools and a place at these does not guarantee a place at the junior school. He didnt get into any of the infant schools and my son is in reception at a private school. The admissions criteria for this school are definitely the standard surrey ones (i.e not VA, doesnt control it's own admissions):

1. Looked after children
2. Exceptional Arrangements
3. Siblings
4. Children for whom the school is the nearest to their home
5. Any other applicant - distance

anyone?

Fabhead,
This comes down to specifics, which junior school are we talking about?

Reigate Priory junior school in Reigate - has no special admissions policy, just the standard ones, I just need to know whether only other local 7-11 schools are taken into account for child's nearest school or all 4-11 schools. I have phooned to check and they say only other 7-11's - I just find it hard to believe as there are so few, surely every child that applied in a very large radius would have it as their nearest school.

On the Surrey site it says All Surrey Primary Schools without a separate intake at 7+ are not taken into account when assessing nearest school. So it would appear to be just 7-11 schools.

The vast majority of the schools are primary schools (5 -11 age). There are some infant and junior schools that are obviously tied to each other, for instance Warren Mead Infant and Junior Schools and then there are other infant and junior schools with no apparent tie, of which Reigate Priory is one.

This is a big junior school - 5 form entry school and you simply just do not have 150 pupils suddenly arriving at age 7 without them having been in infant schools somewhere either state or private. Dovers Green School is a state infant school and appears to be very close to Reigate Priory but only has an admission number of 56, so where the other 100 come from I don't know.

I would ask at the school where the majority of their pupils come from. But from the surrey site the school admitted in 2009 on the distance criteria to a distance of 1.30 kms, which is not a huge distance from the school.

However reading your original post you seem to be suggesting that you are going to move to gain a place at a primary school and then apply to Reigate at 7. You need to talk to Surrey Admission Office about this and get their clarification of the actual situation. I wonder whether they will allow you to apply for a place at the school as you already hold a place at a primary school. Usually the number of junior school places is aligned to the number of infant school places.

I live in Surrey, but the other side. My children's Junior school gives first preference to children from the local infant school, but has a whole extra class which are added to under the admissions criteria. A few children also go private or to other junior schools at 7 (a very few go to all through schools if they have places and that is the parents desires).
So the only grounds are the application criteria, with all through schools ignored on distance grounds. But beware the distance can be quite close to the school, so do check on this. (Also look out for new build houses.)

thanks guys, i think that clarifies what I thought - it is only other local 7-11's taken into account - but there is only 1 other I think so I just dont see how all applicants that apply where it is the child's nearest school get a place - and this year 10 others where it wasn't. I think there must just be very few children who apply at 7 who aren't at the 2 un-official feeder schools. (Holmesdale - 3 form and Reigate Parish - 2 form - hence it being 5 form, these are the only local infant-only primary schools). I guess the others are in all the way through schools and stay or stay private.

Just to clarify, my ds didn't get any of his 3 choices initially, the first 2 of which were the infant only ones mentioned above, obviously, as we live so close to this junior school (0.1km) so they are the obvious "feeder" schools (and all are the most desirabel schools in terms of repuation in the area). So he is at a private school and will be until year 2 when we are anticipating trying again to get him into the junior school, Reigate Priory - we just want to know realistically how far we can move in the intervening years to make this still possible, which, reading by the logic of the figures suggests anywhere where Reigate Priory comes up as, not the nearest school, but the nearest 7-11 school which is quite a big radial distance ???

When they eventually gave him a place at one of the all the way through schools about 3 miles away, I did say to them, but what about at 7 when we would obviously want to apply for him to switch to the junior school that we are 0.1 km away from (why would I drive him to school in the wrong distance from the train station where I need to go to work when he could walk across a short stretch of park outside our house?) and which, presumably if we stay where we are, he would definitely get a place. The head of the all-the-way through school basically said, no one leaves at year 3 and he will be the only one which will be really hard for him and we strongly discourage it. SCC said we strongly discourage it but we can't stop you applying (didn't say if they had any sneaky way of scuppering his application though, which is what worries me) - and of course they say that because, presumably, the junior school is set up 5 form to take the 3 and 2 forms from the ones we didn't get into (0.9 and 1.1 km from where we are now). So my son would presumably displace one of these kids who could easily live 0.1 km from one of the infant schools but 1.1 from the junior school if you see what I mean - and where would they be meant to go? (or are they the extra 10?)

The reason we are thinking of moving is that where we are now we can basically get into the juniors but neither of the 2 infant only schools. If we moved further away from the junior but closer to one of the infant ones we might be able to do both for his younger brothers as all the other local kids seem to do and not have to send them both private too for infants.

Seems very messy to me!

Dovers Green tend to go to Sandcross juniors - which has recently been converted to an all-the-way through so how that affects things I don't know ....

Hi Fabhead, my children attend a local primary school and I know there are a couple of Yr 2 children moving onto the Priory in September.

from an all the way through one? I guess there is space for non holmesdale/parish kids then. I thought the head was probably talking rubbish about no one leaving an al-the-way through one at the end of year 2 but you never know what to believe - everyone has an agenda I find.

We will apply for him at the end of year 2 and see what happens I guess - I dont see how he can be prevented from getting a place as long as RP is his nearest 7-11 school.

I'm not sure how old your ds is, but I would keep an ear open for any plans in the pipeline for the junior and infants to link up. In which case your ds would go to the back of the queue after the feeder infants and siblings. Change of admission procedures can happen quite quickly as I have found out myself!

yeah good point it wouldn't surprise me. That is why we're in this situatiion to start with - the closest school to our house used to be one of the infant feeder schools (and realsistically, it is by far - 10 min walk) - but the year before we had to apply for ds1 they changed the way they measure distance from made up roads and pathways to as the crow flies which put us 20m closer to another school so he no was no longer assessed under childs nearest school but under other and didn't get a place (no others did) - so there are children in his year there who live further away from the school than we do, but in another direction, but don't live closer to another primary school. So I know how easily things can go wrong!

I'm also going to lock horns with the Surrey primary school system if things go to plan (currently renting back in the UK and moving back permanently).

My preferred choice of infant school is only 4-7 but it is a feeder to a larger junior school at ages 7-11. However, I have seen others which are not feeders and my choice is that if I want my daughter to go to the junior school, she has to get into one of a few infant schools, one of which I have identified as my favourite, at this stage.

I will likely rent very close to the school and gain admission on nearness grounds. I will then buy where I want, near the junior school, safe in the knowledge that she is in a feeder school and we live near enough. It is not possible to live near enough the junior school and qualify on distance for the infant school with a high enough degree of certainty.

I appreciate that our situation is not available to many but we are not going to be able to buy for another couple of years anyway so renting is our only interim option.