Reception place admission nightmare!!

[emgar]

I have recently moved into the Lymm area and I have got a place for my eldest son at the closest school to myself for the current year 2. I have a younger son who is going into reception 2010 but I have been told off the admissions department in Warrington that all the spaces for this year have already been allocated. I don't want to move my son if I have no confirmation that my youngest won't get a place (not everyone has yet accepted even though its past the deadline for reply slips to accept or decline a place for reception 2010). If I do move my eldest son asap then I have been told that my youngest will go on the waiting list according to the sibling rule. My concern is that all the places for reception will be taken up with people replying late. Is it right that these people should get a second chance? Should I just move my eldest son to this school and then take my youngest to appeal board - stating that it was unfair that the first allocation got a second chance? If anyone could help me on this matter it would be much appreciated. I am worried that I might be taking a risk that both children will end up at different schools.

emgar what a horrible situation. In my area not accepting (or doing anything in accordance with the timetable) means you forfeit the place. I'd check your local authority I'd be surprised if they didn't have similar rules.

Yes, there is a risk that the boys will end up at different schools, at least temporarily.

Your best option, in my view, is to take up the place for your oldest son. Then, as you've been advised, your youngest son will go somewhere near the top of the waiting list as a sibling.

Do you know what the admission number is for the new school? If it is a multiple of 30, then any appeal which you submit will be treated as an "infant class size" appeal, which means (basically) that you have to demonstrate that the LEA made an error or did not follow proper procedures in refusing a place for your son. (If, though, each class in reception has fewer than 30 children you have a bit more scope for arguing that your son could be admitted without breaching the legal class size limit of 30).

From the sound of it, though, there has been no error and usual procedures have been followed. It's usual to give people a second chance to reply to the offer of a school place. The School Admissions Code 2010 explains the very limited circumstances in which the offer of a place can be withdrawn:

Withdrawing offers of places

1.50 Once an offer of a school place has been made it is only reasonable for an admission authority to withdraw that offer in very limited circumstances. These may include when a parent has failed to respond to an offer within a reasonable time or the admission authority offered the place on the basis of a fraudulent or intentionally misleading application from a parent (for example, a false claim to residence in a catchment area) which effectively denied a place to another child; or where a place was offered under co-ordination by the local authority, not the admission authority, in error. If a parent has not responded to the offer of a place within a reasonable time, the admission authority must remind the parent of the need to respond within a further seven days and point out that the place may be withdrawn if they do not.

If the basis of your appeal is going to be that the LEA should have taken a place away from another child to give it to your son, you will probably not succeed - unless, that is, you can demonstrate that the LEA has not followed its own procedures, but it seems doubtful that any LEA would have procedures in which offers of places were withdrawn on a massive scale.

In any appeal, you need to present positive reasons why your son should be admitted to the school. Presumably your younger son has been offered a place at another school. You need to use the appeal hearing to highlight any compelling reasons why you cannot manage to get both boys to different schools or (indeed) why they could not both go to the school which has a place for your younger son.

That was a very long post (sorry) but I also wanted to ask whether you could defer your younger boy's starting school until January, which increases the chance of a place coming up at your preferred school?

Thanks for your response trowel and error - much appreciated. We have been discussing this all night and we have come up with exactly the same reasons and I think you are completely right. The other problem that we have is that we have been offered 2 places at another school just slighty further away. This school has not got as good an ofsted report but as there is an new head teacher(since that ofsted report was made)who had the decency to meet with us today (other one didn't)we are now starting to think that we wouldn't win an appeal anyway on the basis that there are places for both kids in another school. We have been told that we have the places for the elder son (at both schools)held for 6 weeks ( legal requirement) and that we will know if all places are taken by the 30 th April for the 1st option. To be honest though, the 2nd option is now looking more appealing

By the way, answer to your last question is that we definately do not want to defer his place as I think this is not good for him as he is really looking forward to going to a school with his elder brother.

Have you looked round both the schools? I sympathise with your predicament - we are in the process of moving and I have been and still am visiting potential schools for ds (year 2 in september) and dd (reception in September). Having one would be easier as for older ones they know if they have a space or not. Will feel happy when I have places for both children somewhere I like.

Yes we have looked round both schools today and although the first has a better ofsted report - both head teachers have only come into their positions in the last year (after the ofsted report). The head at the first school couldn't be bothered to show us round and got the receptionist to do it but the 2nd preference the head showed us round and she was really aspirational and very approachable which is now making me think that I think the boys would be btter off together with a head that can bother to meet and great us!

I personally would go with the second school - when i've been looking round schools I have found that ofsted reports don't count for as much as how the school feels to you. I found an "outstanding" school rather characterless and a "satisfactory" school somewhere I'd feel much happier my DC going to.

It's great that you're feeling more positive about the second choice school.

You really have nothing to lose by appealing for the first choice (if it is still your first choice after today's visits) - nothing ventured, nothing gained - but you do need to have a realistic view of your chances of success. For any appeal for a reception place, they're rarely high.

And, if I may say so, I think you're very wise to be considering other things apart from the school's Ofsted rating. Ofsted reports are helpful but they don't tell you everything about a school.

Well, after tonights discussions it looks like we are going with the second choice as we feel that the head mistress has alot to offer and I can feel with confidence that both children will be at the same school without sleepless nights!! Ofsted reports are as only as good as when they were made - and that was a few years ago - thanks everyone for helping us reach this very important decision in our childrens futures...

Do both the schools feed into Lymm High - I imagine that they do.

I agree with TrowelAndError - if you want to get your children into the first place school you should accept the place for the older child and appeal for the younger child. However, complaining about the first allocation being given a second chance won't get you anywhere at appeal as the LA is only following the School Admissions Code as required by law.

Having checked the PANs for Warrington primary schools, any appeal would almost certainly be an infant class size appeal which means you would need to show Warrington had made a mistake or had acted unreasonably (which means irrationally) in order to win. Your chances of success are therefore low.

If you are feeling positive about your second choice school, I would recommend going for that.

I'm obviously going to have to learn to type quicker!

Given what you have posted I think you have made the right decision. Hope your children like their new school and get on well.

Yes they both feed into lymm high!!

I think you chances of winning an infant class size appeal are slim. You have good vibes about the second school that has places for both your children but are worried about a slightly inferior OFSTED report.

I would not be hesitating over this, go for the second school, go with your instincts. The attitude of the head to me is all important and simply confirms to me a school on the up, rather than one that might well be coasting.