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Original poster

Teachers advice - inclusion on school trip

26 replies

debs40 · 20/04/2010 17:50

DS (7 with sensory problems and possible ASD) is due to go on a school trip on Friday to a Sikh school. He is quite keen and I asked school how they are going to ensure his inclusion because he has issues about eating and the Sikh school are feeding the children. DS is, as many ASD children are, a very picky eater who has problems with smells and tastes.

The Head is away but his teacher spoke to me today and basically suggested he stay off as going into another class for the day would be stressful for him and they clearly weren't interested in accomodating him but described it as not wanting to cause him distress.

I said he was looking forward to the trip and the only worry was lunch. I called DS over and he agreed

I pointed out that they would have to make arrangements if a child had an allergy or other dietary problem but the teacher just then referred me back to the SENCO.

I have offered to go but there's no room on the bus apparently.

OP posts:
Niecie · 20/04/2010 17:56

Could you get yourself there? not go on the bus I mean.

Seems mean to make him stay off for the day just for the sake of lunch. I have a DS with similar problems and his school have made every effort to include him, even when we haven't wanted them to (residental trip - ended up having to go and pick him up early)!!

I think if you are offereing to be there then they should be taking you up on it. Only problem that I can see if CRB checks. Our school would make us have one before going on a trip.

As a matter of interest, don't they ask if parents are prepared to help with a trip. Can't one of those be bumped off the bus and said they aren't needed this time?

Niecie · 20/04/2010 17:58

and told they aren't needed (not said)

Sorry.

Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 18:03

Thanks for this Niecie. They do need CRB checks and I haven't got one but they haven't mentioned this as an obstacle. The other school is about a one and a half hour drive away so it is not feasible to drive up there myself.

I asked whether he could be supported over lunch by a TA and they said they don't have the staffing for this. They also said they were worried he would get stressed as it will be 'too different for him' and he will be a long way from home and this would cause problems.

Interesting that when the ASD psych came in a month ago, they told her everything was fine, now he's too much of a problem to take on a school outing.

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SleepingLion · 20/04/2010 18:04

Surely he would be allowed to take a packed lunch? That way you could make sure that he has the things he is comfortable eating and he still gets to take part in the trip.

If my child was excluded from an activity over something as minor as this, I'm afraid the governors would be hearing about it within the week if the staff weren't prepared to deal with it appropriately.

prh47bridge · 20/04/2010 18:04

If I was in your situation I would remind the school of their obligations under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and the Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001. This legislation says that LAs must not treat disabled students less favourably without justification and must make reasonable adjustments to ensure they are not disadvantaged.

Your son is disabled under this legislation if he "has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities". If your son's problems meet this test they should be making sure that they take steps to ensure his inclusion. They cannot simply exclude him from school trips.

Niecie · 20/04/2010 18:12

I would definitely talk to the head - is she back before Friday? Or the deputy head?

Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 18:16

Thanks. Of course, they are saying they are just worried for his welfare. My point is there is no need to worry if they have appropriate support in place.

They end up in this position because they say he's fine (although even they are starting to admit that he's not) and doesn't need extra support - even though he's on SA+. They trained the class TA on the Early Bird Plus course but moved her out of the class without warning and he now has no one.

But he doesn't cause a disruption so that's ok - there is no problem.

They they have to take him somewhere and they know that actually he does handle change badly so does need support but they haven't got the staffing as they have no extra help for him and don't know what to do to support him. So, it's easier to say, as the teacher did 'between you and me, if he'd like to stay off for the day, that wouldn't be a problem'.

I had to ask for the issue to be raised in the first place. Shouldn't this be part of planning for such trips?

OP posts:
Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 18:16

Head is stuck abroad! Deputy head is the SENCO so I've written to him.

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SleepingLion · 20/04/2010 18:29

Again - why is a packed lunch not the answer?

Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 18:49

They say that the other school is feeding the children because it is considered rude to bring your own food. I have said I am sure they wouldn't mind if it was explained and suggested, as an alternative, that DS could eat outside.

But again, why was this not part of planning for the trip?

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BellsaRinging · 20/04/2010 18:55

Can you ask for a contact at the other school, and speak to them about what is planned for lunch? Presumably they will have a SENCO there, who will be able to understand the issues, and probably have dealt with similar with their own pupils. They may be able to reassure with regard to the menu etc?

asdx2 · 20/04/2010 19:30

Have been in a similar situation myself where because ds's LSA was absent and the stand in LSA was scared of ds.
School asked me to withdraw him from the trip because they knew they couldn't refuse to take him because of DDA.
I refused to withdraw him and informed the LEA that if ds wasn't fully included on the trip then the Disability Rights Commission would have them in court at the first opportunity.
The LEA supplied a relief headteacher so that the head could lead the trip freeing up ds's classteacher to provide 1 to 1 support for ds.
All this done overnight because school sprung it on me the day before the trip. Class teacher rung me at 10pm to check that I was happy with the arrangements
I wouldn't bother pussyfooting with school go straight to the LEA would be my advice

Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 19:34

Is that because your son was statemented though? Do the LA's have any obligations to non-statemented children? I thought it was all in the hands of the school.

Bella - I have asked the SENCo if he can do that. It just annoys me that they didn't even think of that themselves.

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skidoodly · 20/04/2010 19:36

Ffs rude to bring your own food in this circumstance?

Of course the other school wouldn't mind.

Poor kid

asdx2 · 20/04/2010 19:39

The statement guaranteed him the LSA support but it was the disability that had to be accommodated by law so would say the LEA has a duty to your child just as they would have to mine.
Can you contact IPSEA,ACE or SOSSEN for advice?

BelleDeChocolateFluffyBunny · 20/04/2010 19:43

Sorry, I don't know alot about the food they would be serving, I do know it's all vegetarian though. Can you investigate to see what they will be serving as it may not be a big problem if he can eat some of it.

scurryfunge · 20/04/2010 19:44

Get the school to put it in writing that they cannot accommodate him because of his disability and see where you go from there. I guarantee they will allow him to go.

asdx2 · 20/04/2010 19:48

"Get the school to put it in writing that they cannot accommodate him because of his disability and see where you go from there. I guarantee they will allow him to go."
Definitely agree with this, they wouldn't dare though because you would be able to sue

Original poster
debs40 · 20/04/2010 19:55

Thanks. Just spoken to IPSEA and they told me what you are saying about not including him being illegal and also told me that if the school can't ensure he is accomodated then it is ammunition in applying for a statutory assessment as his needs are greater than the school can accomodate.

I have emailed the school and said we would like him to go and think that the main problem area is lunchtime. We have asked that they ring the school to ask about accomodating DS or allow him to eat outside the building.

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Clary · 20/04/2010 21:57

Debs this seems ridiculous. What if yr DS was (as is someone in DD's class) coeliac - no gluten? He (bless him) takes his own food everywhere, to parties, for packed lunch etc.

In fact if our school is feeding the children (eg Christmas party) they specifically say "any children with dietary issues can bring a plate of food for themselves".

It certainly seems absurd to exclude him from the trip for this non-reason. I am sure a word with the SENCO of the other school coule resolve it.

Original poster
debs40 · 21/04/2010 00:21

I think they just haven't applied their mind to it at all and see it as extra hassle. It is constantly disappointing. I don't know why I should have to raise this and suggest ideas to them. It's not like they're saying there is not a problem. It's worse, they know there is a problem, but they don't know what to do about it so would sooner he not go!

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cat64 · 21/04/2010 00:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
debs40 · 21/04/2010 10:38

I'm seeing SENCO later to discuss how he can be included.

It's all very tiring! I would have hoped this sort of thing would be considered as part of the planning for a trip liek this. If he was in a wheelchair, they would have to think about how to accomodate him.

Perhaps I'm being naive!

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asdx2 · 21/04/2010 11:53

A link that you might find useful before seeing the SENCO or even to show the SENCO as it may focus her mind on the need for inclusion.www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/code_of_practice_for_schools1.pdf
Hope this helps

asdx2 · 21/04/2010 11:55

A link that you might find useful before seeing the SENCO or even to show the SENCO as it may focus her mind on the need for inclusion.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/code_of_practice_for_schools1.pdf
Hope this helps