Is private kindergarten to year 2 worth paying for?

[MangoNoodle]

considering
1)we have an ofsted outstanding primary nearby, class size is 30 for two intakes but with mixed year group arrangement ie Yr1 and 2, Yr 3/4, yr 5/6 where 15 students of each year in one class ie 4 classes in total for each year group arrangement. same teacher for the kid for two year. whereas in private, class size is 14ish.
2)are there any achievement/development differences in children in state system and private during this first three years and hence doesn't matter private or state?
3)private school in mind starts music in Y2, swimming from kindergarten, after school club for kindergarten children too (but not in state). Not a working mum so can pick up anytime, but is having afterschool club ie till 4.30pm too much for 5 years old?

hope mothers/teachers with similar worries can share their view. ta.

We had this sort of dilemma and chose the state option after MUCH agonising on here and in RL.

I don't regret it for a minute and ds loves it but a key factor for us was that the state primary was a lot closer than the pre-prep and was mixed.
It wasn't a financial decision at all.
Why not just go with the primary and then if you find it disappointing you can still switch as most pre-preps have places coming up at the end of year R or 1 these days.

What you do at home will make a big difference. Yes some of the prepreps are a bit pacier with the curriculum - less play focused but I'm happy with the fact ds gets more learning through play and will associate school with fun. He is at the same stage with reading as a girl we know who is at a preprep and they were at about the same stage when they started so it doesn't seem to be doing him any harm!

A good primary will have lots of fun activities - they might not have a swimming pool or whatever but you can do that after school once a week. Ds does a foreign
language in a lunchtime club and has a whale of a time.

Think 4.30 does make the day long for a 5 year old if you have a choice (and I appreciate some parents don't).

I had this dilemma, chose the state option again mainly on distance grounds and - though there've been wobbles - am generally pleased

When I had a wobble I looked round a couple of nearby private schools with a view to moving them mid year and found them very stuffy in comparison to dd's school. More importantly dd wasn't significantly behind what the private school kids were doing - slightly perhaps but not in a way that couldn't quickly be remedied.

Dd1 also has a couple of small developmental problems which were not picked up at her private nursery, they were noted by her new school straight away and she's being given a lot of help and has significantly improved in many areas. This may have been the case in a private school but I may also have been charged extra for the help

She does French as an extra, swimming and dance at after school clubs - it's easy to provide all those extras yourself.

As for the 4.30 pick, imo that's too much as they find school very tiring at first but each child is different

Good luck with your decision

I think your decision should be based on which school you think is right for YOUR child, rather than looking at it as a simple private-v-state issue. Look around your local state school and the privates you are considering; which feels good to you, which one do you think your child would be happiest in? Does she thrive in large groups or is she better in a small setting? (small doesn't always mean best or suit everyone).

Extras can always be provided out of school. If you are considering working in the future the longer hours and the fact that some of the extras will be available at school might be an advantage - at this moment it sounds like it's not a big draw. FWIW my DD started pre-school in a private school and is now in Y1 and I feel she is getting a much better early education than either of my boys - one started in state school, the other in private. For me though it's this particular school that I think is fab, rather than the fact that it's a private school. Good luck with your decision

thank you all.. another thing I am worried about is the state school having 30 in one class with 15 of the other year group, somehow I just feel there will be an extent of distraction. how much I won't know. any idea anyone?

If it helps at all, my rural primary had 3 class groups and the age mix worked fine. Obviously that was a long long time ago with no National Curriculum etc.

Is it worth it?
probably not in reception and year 1. If your child is quite confident and not very shy they will do very well in the outstanding state primary school. If they are timid than the smaller classes of the prep school could be an advantage.

However, I think it is from year 2 that the independent schools come into their own in my experience; the sport is much more varied and are given a larger proportion of the timetable than in state schools, also true for music and the arts. The curriculum goes quicker and so during year 2 children are usually a year ahead of the National Curriculum by year 6 they are often 2 years ahead. As the classes are smaller the pace is quicker which keeps the attention of the brightest children better. It also means that preps often get through the core subjects quicker and this frees time for more subjects to be introduced (e.g. Latin and French)and more sports etc. What is key is that the children are taught by specialist subject teachers. I think this makes a real difference.

Sunnydelight - agree with you that every private school not the same. DD is in the pre-school in the private primary's site, though managed and run by another external provider the pre-school learning is actually coordinated by the private's foundation teacher. we are really happy with her development so far, she surprised me with 'Rhombus' the other day which I think is not bad for 4 year old.

LetsEscape - ideally we would like to switch her private at the start of Year 2 for the same reasons you stated if DD not doing well. this may mean she will be mixed in R, Y1, then new school for Y2 (with many friends made in her current pre-school already), again in Year 3 and Year 4 as the private starts streaming according to abilities.

she is a confident girl when she knows her stuff. and not shy according to her pre-school teacher but as a parent, I know she takes a while to warm up and once she is familiar with the surronding she can be rather cheeky. good concentration span though in a teacher pupil setting, an observer, quietly learning type. her current pre-school has 24 in one class, she does get on well with everyone. always interesting to see how interact with others considering she was so clingy to me before sending her to nursery.

the ofsted report of our very very very close state school found that ''Occasionally, lack of pace or insufficient challenge impedes pupils' progress.'' if the school is an outstanding school with opportunities to improve, perhaps this is not really an issue... or hmm??

As others have said, you choose a school on where you think your child will be happy. The rest will follow on at this stage.

We had the same dilemma. Chose state. And moved ds after a year. He wasn't happy. And the other dc have not even started in the state system. We are fortunate that we can afford it (just) but the differences are huge, even at Reception and Year 1 and 2.

Interesting to think that if ds1 had been older for the year/more confident/less nerdy and been happy at his state school he would have stayed there, and the others would probably have gone there too. Instead we are forking out vast sums of money for their education, and I don't regret a penny of it.

What were/ are the big differences for you Kitkats? Just curious.

I suppose the main difference was the pastoral care, and the other benefits stemmed from there.

ds 1 is not the most straightforward child - very young for the year, small physically, suffered from terrible eczema, but very very clever.

And while I said in my earlier post that had he been "more confident" the problems might not have arisen, that is not really true in some ways. He is a confident child, but quiet about it.

He was not accommodated well at state school. No fault of the teacher really, but she had 30 children in the class of widely varying abilities, a TA from time to time only, a couple of children who had very challenging behaviour, and a quiet clever child simply got ignored.

His current school has none of the behaviour problems, class sizes half that of his state school and a full time TA. In addition a lot of time is spent on pastoral care, for example, lunchtime at his previous school - into the dining hall, scoff your meal as quickly as possible, escape to playground where you may or may not be able to find your friends. Current school (applies up to Year 2, then gradually gets freer) - class lines up for main course, takes to table, eats with lunchtime assistant eating at each table with children, puddings brought round by dinner ladies, whole class leave together with lunchtime assistant. In my experience, lunchtimes can be really traumatic for Reception aged children, and his current school goes out of its way to make sure children feel as secure at lunch as they do during class time.

I think those are the type of things that make my dc comfortable; they really feel cared for and part of the school community.

On top of that are the curriculum differences and the extra-curricular opportunities. Yes, you can do all these things as clubs after school without having to pay through the nose for it, but it can be very hard work to organise if you have several dc. The national curriculum is seen as the starting point, the base line from where my dc's education starts.

I feel reasonably well-placed to comment. Not only has my dc spent more than a year at our local outstanding state school as well as his current independent one, but I teach primary. I'm teaching in the state system at the moment, but started my teaching career in the independent sector so have had the opportunity to see both sides, as a parent and a teacher.

Having said all that, we would not have moved ds1 had he been happy. Not until KS2 anyway, when we would have reconsidered. To me, KS1 is about settling into the routine of school, gaining the confidence and skills to get the best out of school, and, for us, becoming a true member of the local community. These ideals should be best served at the local state school, but, if the child is not happy, you're onto a loser.

Sorry for the waffle. I hope I've answered your question.

Definitely very well answered Kitkat and very interesting.

I think my ds was just the right side of confident enough to cope. He has surprised me actually as I thought he wouldn't.

For now we're sticking with the state primary he's in but if we felt he was being let down academically we would move him.
He is a good way ahead of the others for reading and maths but I don't think it matters hugely at the moment. I will be wanting to see more differentiation for him next year though.

I can really see why you made the decision you did - it's a shame the state primary couldn't cater for him isn't it.

thank you all for your much appreciated opinions!!