Do primary schools seriously object to you taking your dc's out during termtime?

[strandedatsea]

Dd1 is due to start in reception this Sept (although we are overseas at the moment and probably for another year, so this will only really become an issue in 2011). Dd2 will start school in 2012.

How much do schools in the UK really object to you taking them out during term-time - and does this get worse the higher up the school they get? I presume it's different from school to school so would be grateful to hear your experiences.

Just wondering whether we need to get all our "cheap" holidays in within the next year!

Thanks.

Most schools will object, but the degrees to which they enforce the rule vary. My DC's school are OK about a few days here and there. They expect a letter to the Head requesting the absence as a formality, but they won't kick up too much of a fuss.

The car seat comparison is ridiculous@Gigantaur.

I think we are talking about different things here. On the one hand, frequent absences might cause a problem to a child's social interaction with their peers.

But I simply don't believe, whatever the Essex County Council says (and it's going to do it's very best to pursuade parents not to take their children out of school)that taking them away for one or two weeks once a year is going to have any long-term impact on either their friendships or education.

In fact I am of the old school of thought that travel broadens the mind and also helps them learn to interact with people from different cultures. I guess that's not the trendy thinking any more!

Gigantaur - I guess it's just like a lot of things, trying to get the balance between being told by the "authorities" what is best for our child and doing what we believe is best for our child. See my posts below, I don't think a 5 year old missing a week of school would harm them in any way.

Funny you say that about the car seat though. It is not the law here and I see many, many people who should know better and can afford a car seat let their children ride around in their cars without even a seat belt. So yes, with this one, I can see why it should be a legal requirement. Because to ignore it could mean very serious damage to your child. Not so with missing school though...I don't think!

Stranded - the truth is that it depends on the school and on your child's attendance record as to whether they'll get hot under the collar about it. And to an extent what the whole school attendance is like.

The school can authorise up to 10 days holiday in exceptional circumstances. They supposed to consider each request individually and not have a blanket policy either way. It's not an entitlement though so if they say no then it's a case of go anyway and bear the 'unauthorised' marks on the register.

Schools can issue penalty warning notices for holidays taken in term-time but are unlikely to if the attendance is otherwise good.

Pixie - your first point is a good one, I also would not want my children believing they are somehow too good for the rules. But I wish the schools were a little more relaxed about it, then you wouldn't have to be breaking the rules in the first place.

I'm with pixie and gigantaur on this. School is school, not childcare in between holidays. It's not just disruptive to the child on holiday, but also to the other children in the class, the teachers and the whole school dynamic.

I also get frustrated by this view that holiday prices are 'astronomically inflated' during school holidays. No, they're not - at other times of year they are astronomically deflated. It's supply and demand.

I don't believe that kids need foreign holidays on a regular basis. Whereas I as a parent definitely do, so my DD comes along with me for those reasons. I have accepted that my holidays will become a bit more circumspect whilst she is growing up. As soon as she hits 18, I'm off trekking in Mongolia.

I think that taking kids out of school for one/two weeks at a time has a definite impact on their education. DD1 (P2) always seems to be in the middle of some project or other - missing a week of school would make it very difficult for her to make up the time. If everyone took their kids out during term time the cirriculum would be in a right mess!

Pixie - funnily enough I could be on a hot beach every tuesday morning if I wanted because of where I currently live but all I want to do is be back home in the rain!

Thanks for your imput everyone, I've got to take dd1 to a swimming lesson now, this certainly has opened my eyes! Looks like I will have to brace myself for the crowds as well as the higher prices in a couple of years time.....

why is it ridiculous? it is comparing breaking one law with another.

both cause possible harm to a child.

admittedly child probably wont die from not attending school but the law is still broken.

Right, and you don't think the reason schools are so rigid about term time absence has anything at all to do with the fact that unauthorised absences mess up their standing in the league tables?

Call me a cynic.

This is one of the reasons I keep looking at home education. I'm not about to take my kids out of school so I can get a cheap tan, but I want to show them museums, art galleries, monuments, landmarks and so on, and the idea of cramming all of that into two days a week, when everyone else is doing it, makes my heart sink.

Our school takes a very standard view and will allow up to 10 days per year. Some families will request a couple of days of this for a holiday they could not otherwise afford. The last week of the school year is always about 2 or 3 days long which allows some people to get a cheap holiday without missing anything too important. Other people will take the full 10 days though - and often!

There are schools much more lenient. A friend of mine who has a child the same age (reception) was allowed to take her child out for a month to go on holiday! Just depends on the headteacher.....

community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/401097.aspx?PageIndex=1

Unauthorised absence doesn't cause a problem. It's overall absence figures that count these days.

If you are tackling long term attendance problems then the unauthorised % does go up because you have to leave the attendance unauthorised in order to issue the fine.

It's a bit of a cheek though when the parents who brag about their child's school's Outstanding Ofsted will happily put it in jeopardy by taking the child out in term time.

By saggarmakersbottomknocker Thu 15-Apr-10 20:17:04
Unauthorised absence doesn't cause a problem.

sorry but tell that to the child who is sitting bewildered because they are the only one in the class who doesn't "know how" because they were on holiday the fortnight that it was taught... and I would say that is very relevant to children in reception learning to read and write and may have missed ten letters/sounds in that time.

mrsz - that's not what I mean't. It was in response to

By APassionateWoman Thu 15-Apr-10 20:04:23
'Right, and you don't think the reason schools are so rigid about term time absence has anything at all to do with the fact that unauthorised absences mess up their standing in the league tables?'

meaning it makes no difference either way to the league tables whether it's authorised or not.

In my ds's reception class there are normally about 20 of 30 children in class on any one day. I don't know why so many children are absent but I do know that the primary reason isn't children being taken out on holiday, the impression I get is that there are a few mum's who are struggling to cope and don't have the energy to bring their kids to school every day. I also don't know what the school is doing to tackle these persistent absentees but whatever it is it's not working.

I do find it rather ridiculous that by asking permission to take ds1 out of school I will likely be incurring a fine, whereas the parents of the persistent absentees are, I assume, saying that their child is sick and aren't being fined.

I'm not trying to defend taking ds out of school for a week's holiday, whilst I don't think it's the worst thing for a 4yo to miss week's school I do appreciate that it's disruptive and has a negative effect on the attendance stats and I am not planning to do it again. However the school's hard line policy in practise encourages parents to lie to avoid the fine, eg I know of another parent who has booked return flights early on a monday morning to save money and is planning to say that their Sunday flights have been delayed. Not a good example to be setting to children but i do think that our school needs to be a little more flexible.

Butterpie - exactly. I think people assume that you want to go on holiday for yourself, I don't, I gave up that idea when I had children! No, I want to show them the world.

I am now thinking of starting a thread asking for ideas to take children on holiday during the school holidays which are slightly off the usual tourist trail and therefore wouldn't necessarily be more expensive because it was the holidays.

birdyarms, if children are consistently absent (the figure is less than 80% attendance I think, or maybe even 85%) then the school wil contact them to see why and if it can offer any help.

So they won't just be allowed to continue taking sick days, esp if they are not actually sick.

I always recall the mum at our school who took her child out on holiday over a period which included the photo shoot (a rather glamourous term, perhaps?!) for the school calendar.

Once back, she asked if a further photo could be done to include her son who had missed out!!! errr no!!

Just to show that children may miss all kinds of things if they are not at school, not just learning their sounds and cementing friendships (tho these are v important).

In reception many children are under statutory school age so the school can only take action once the child has had their fifth birthday.

Very few school are so rigid that they will not allow a day off for a wedding or some other special family occasion. I took my dd out for a day to go to the Horse of the Year Show, for example, and my ds had a day recently to visit his grandmother.

But schools do frown on holidays in term time and many do not allow them at all. They are very disruptive to the child, the class and the teacher, and (IMHO) give children a false idea baout the importance of education.

Butterpie, there are 13 weeks of holiday in each school year, plus weekends, and bank holidays. Even in London, that's more days of holiday than there are attractive museums and galleries (believe me, I've done most of them). If you really can't bear to take them at a time when there might be lots of other children there, you could use the inset days, when there will be fewer.

And school will take them on lots of trips as well.

The only thing that I really miss about the nursery years is Legoland - the kids (Lego mad) used to love it, but DH and I can't face the traffic queues in school holidays, and our school never has its inset days in the summer when it's open.