How can I find / guarantee the best school for my daughter in / near London ?

[3point14]

Hi there,

We're returning to the UK for the first time since becoming parents. I have only my decades old experience of the UK education system and my partner is not from the UK and thus she has no experience of UK schools.

Our daughter will be 3 in July. I used to live in central London but I don't think that returning to a flat is a good move and I don't have £1m+ for a decent house in the middle of London. So we're looking at the London commuter belt.

We'll have to rent for a year or so before buying so we are literally free to live anywhere (within the bounds of reasonable cost).

Is it as easy as finding an area you like, picking the best school and then just renting or buying a house near that school ?

I see league tables such as www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2009/dec/01/primary-school-league-tables-surrey but where do I find out how wide an individual school's catchment area is ?

What I'm trying to avoid is picking a decent house if we cannot get our daughter into the chosen school when we are in the possibly fortunate position of being able to take a house as near as required to the chosen school.

Without a support network we are finding this all very confusing and we would dearly appreciate your help. Thanks.

Thanks again for the replies.

I agree that the commute from the south east of London is far better. There are multiple entry points into the transport system and they are all much nearer than Waterloo. Were I only in Canary Wharf then I can make a stronger case for Waterloo but from the east, arriving into Cannot Street seems ideal for the circle to Liverpool Street.

The trouble is that I have only ever considered living in London without a child and always wanted the nearest to the City with social facilities. I will have a look at the Muswell Hill, Alexandra Park and Highgate areas, thank you.

Guildford seems around 16 minutes quicker than Farnham at 37 mins versus 53 mins. Probably significant at pre 7am but not a deal maker. Much more significant would be somewhere which is near enough to walk to the station and yet, miraculously, near enough to guarantee a place at the school of choice. I doubt such a place exists and if I am going to live so close to a town centre, then why am I not just living in central London ? It isn't a crystal clear argument at any turn I appreciate.

I know I should look at Kingston, so thanks for the reminder. Only ever heard of Surbiton but will investigate. 10 mins to Waterloo versus 53 mins seems ideal but does it have enough appeal or good enough schools to make it a contender ?

St Albans, again, heard of it but nothing about it. Will add it to the list, thanks.

As for house money, well probably not able to buy until 2012 as we're not selling up overseas. Then about £500,000 or so I suppose as a realistic budget. Not sure I want to spend that on a project though as I won't have time. Perhaps a less characterful but newer house would be better but they so often come with tiny little gardens.

As for the rental, I don't think you are correct. Whilst I certainly need to rent from the date of application (or have arranged to rent or buy by that date), I would be informed in the March of 2011 whether I was successful or not. After that date, the place at the school is confirmed, it is unconditional and my understanding is that at that point, I could go live anywhere I choose.

As for the 7-11 junior school issue, then that is exactly the point I am making. There are cases where not all from the feeder schools can be admitted by the junior school and then it goes to distance, hence my point about not only needing to be near the 4-7 school but also near enough to the 7-11 school to merit inclusion on distance.

If I may ask, do any of you know anyone who commutes from an hour or more away ? Thanks.

Yes I know somebody who commutes from Farnham to Canary Wharf, 4 days a week thats why I say don't do it. You have to factor in walking to the station + the crucial factor is how frequent the trains are, the ones Farnham to Waterloo are very infrequent compared to Guildford, if you miss a train it can be almost a 2 hour journey each way.

Would you cycle to the station? DH does often, (on a foldable bicycle, which he takes on the train and cycles the other end too). We are walkable distance but 20 mins there and back, 5 mins cycle. That would increase your options.

If you're renting in Edmonton, it might be worth trying the other side of Enfield - Palmers Green, Southgate, Winchmore Hill and Enfield Town/Bush Hill Park. I know Edmonton is not very nice (understatement), but these other areas are lovely and great for families (if a little suburban). Palmers Green and Winchmore Hill and some Enfield stations are on the overground line into Moorgate; Bush Hill Park is on the overground into Liverpool St. Southgate is on the Piccadilly line. You'll get into the City more quickly from here than you would from Muswell Hill/Highgate I reckon. Palmers Green is 20 mins to Moorgate on the fast train.

There are some fantastic schools in these areas - but you often need to live on the doorstep in order to qualify. The best (non-faith) school in Southgate (Walker) had a catchment of under 0.3 miles for the 2010/2011 intake. But other schools are also good and it's a great area for families. Houses will be a bit cheaper for rental than Crouch End/Muswell Hill/Highgate as you're just the other side of the North Circular, but you can be in Muswell Hill in 10 minutes if you want.

If you phone Enfield Council, they'll tell you the catchment areas for each school for the coming year's intake, but as it changes each year depending on sibling numbers etc it's only useful as a guide. But once you've found a house you like, you can ask them how far you are to your preferred schools and see whether you'd have a chance of getting in.

I had looked at the timetables but I'll admit I hadn't thought about the "just missed the train" problem and the potential 30 minute wait for another. I guess the fact that it would be a 30 minute wait would have you scurrying to the station earlier than you would were there more frequent trains, purely to avoid the possibility of missing it. That alone adds more time to the journey

As for walking to the station, I don't think that is viable really. I can argue that on some days it would be a nice walk but half of the year is winter and in any case, a walk of 15+ minutes would not do for me as I just wouldn't put up with it.

The more I think about it, the more a second car seems necessary. The only way out of that would be if she wanted the car she could pick it up at the station, were she not dropping me off there in the morning. She takes our daughter to school, which we make sure is within walking distance and perhaps picks the car up. If she doesn't want it, then she leaves it at the station.

From the net, it looks like 53 mins to Waterloo and 12 mins to Canary Wharf or Liverpool Street. Add in maybe 5 minutes to change (as it rounds the numbers !) and you have 70 mins. 10 mins at the start and you've 80 mins or, as you rightly point out, 100 mins if you miss the train ! Add another 10 mins for driving and 8am in the office is a 6:30am start !

That will need careful thought but perhaps more worrying is the 7pm finish and home at 8:30pm to 9pm. And that is every day.

Does it frighten me enough to go back to Angel (or zone 1) and pay for schooling ?

No, I would never cycle. Walk 5/10 mins max or drive.

I'm in Edmonton simply because as I'm here on my own for most of the time, it seemed stupid to pay 2 or 3 times as much in rent to go back to live in Angel. I've a 24 hour Asda on the doorstep and a train station into Liverpool Street about 5 mins away. Those are the pluses, the minuses are many, too many to count. Isn't Edmonton the murder capital of the UK ?

I'm also feeling a pull to choose somewhere where my daughter can have a life outside her house. As a child I was never at home, always outside. These days, it is as though the bogey man is on every corner and kids get mugged for their trainers. Perhaps wrongly, I see that as more of a city problem rather than a rural one.

If you are thinking about Farnham, and are going to drive anywhere, I have heard so much positive stuff about Bentley Village School from people in the area

My husband commutes from Guildford to the city, does door to door in 1 hour, sometimes quicker (unless he takes the slow train for comfort). Waterloo to Docklands isn't bad.
Guildford has lots of good schools, but very popular, do live on the right side of town.
Farnham has a great school, but less good commuting, we have a friend who drives from Farnham to Guildford and then commutes.
Schools in the south east are on the whole becoming more crowded (result of the recession, people unable to afford private and not moving).

Hi. Another vote for Muswell Hill from me. Rhodes Avenue, Muswell Hill Primary, Tetherdown and Coldfall primary schools all have an "outstanding" rating from Ofsted. Alexandra Park School and Fortismere are highly rated secondary schools popular with parents. Lots of green space and gorgeous Edwardian architecture, so doesn't feel particularly urban. My DH commutes to the city via the overground link. He prefers it to the tube - more likely to get a seat and not nearly as hot in the summer. be warned though, Muswell Hill is a bit of a honey pot for people looking for good state schools and house prices tend to reflect this. The area on the Alexandra Park end tends to be cheaper. However, you will need to ensure that you are close enough to Rhodes Avenue to get in. I believe Rhodes Avenue is going 3 form, although not sure when, which will expand the admissions area. Good luck!

You need to be really carefull about admissions criterias and speaking to the education dept at the council is the best way forward as school catchment areas can change from year to year (usually shrinks) and I've heard people having school places withdrawn if they move within 6 months of gaining a school place and having lived at the address for less than 1 year.

We're not in central london but just outside, in Wanstead, which has two tube stations direct to Liv Street on central line. It's a fantastic place to live for families, I'm really happy here.

I really don't know what you mean by 'best school' as so many schools have strenths that we were looking for. If your judgement is only on academic achievement then it's easy to quantify, but we wanted sense of community, good sports facilities, a positive ethos, which are much harder to quantify. We are a Christian family and have been accepted in a faith school.

There are really excellent schools in Wanstead, and the town has a great feel. See this table:

education.guardian.co.uk/primaryeducation/tables/0,,1655392,00.html

But it might not achieve the 'excellency' you are looking for.

If the commute is a deal-breaker (and i think you're right about that) then do not go SW. I did SW18 to Greenwich and it was hideous. 1.5 hours on average. My commute involved bus, train and walking. On a bad day it might also include DLR and tube. By far, the worst part of the journey was into Waterloo: SW Trains are crowded and very often delayed and/or cancelled. Waterloo to Greenwich, or the Jubilee Line, was generally on time and pain free.

There is a reason all my colleagues lived SE/Kent way. Kent seems like a no-brainer for you, what with leafy suburbs, easy commute and many good schools. Pay higher rent to be close to a station and decent school if those are your priorities. For me, quality of life = painless commute and getting home at a decent hour.

What about Radlett, Herts, journey time to London I think is under 30 mins and daughter goes to www.habsgirls.org.uk/ or www.nlcs.org.uk/ (but that's fee paying). They are both good schools, we found anyway and ours started around 5 or 4.

We've been going through this and have just today made an offer on a house in Kent. Kent and Bucks are the two home counties that still have grammers (selective entry typically taking the top 25%). As Kent have more grammers than Bucks they tend not to be as elite as the ones in Bucks. However, we have opted to go the prep school route first to ensure our son gets in to the grammer as these are getting more and more difficult to get into (a result of the recession). We don't need to commute in to London on a daily basis so have decided to go alot more rural. It's risky but our son was certainly not thriving in his state primary in west London and we didn't want to have to change him second time if the state school in the village didn't work. Kingston or Teddington are good bets but be careful. Teddington schools are hugely oversubscribed and you have to just about camp on the entrance to get in.

Great responses and many thanks.

To the lady from Guildford [mummytime], how far do you live from the station ? I think that is critical and also how you get there. We have (read she has !) already decided that she will not be getting up to take me to the train at 6am. I think that is being rather selfish (but perhaps somewhat understandable).

I also believe that a commute on the train is far better than a similar commute on the tube. I guess many of us have been to Heathrow on the tube at some point, but could you imagine doing that, stop start every few minutes and no air conditioning ?

Schools have deadlines for specific reasons. They are legally binding, on both parties. Any school attempting to remove my daughter's place whether I move 5 metres or 500 miles away will land in court in double quick time. Of course, any requirements of the application procedure will be adhered to the letter.

The commute is important but I remember living in Angel and travelling to the Docklands. I had a walk or a bus to Angel station, then the longest escalator in Europe I believe, a very crowded Northern Line to Bank and then a terrible interchange to the DLR which often required long waiting times, meaning packed trains and then a slow and often interrupted journey to Canary Wharf. That was a hell of a commute but largely because of the changing and poor DLR. Now I would face a train to Waterloo, most probably with a seat and perhaps a/c. To Canary Wharf is the newish Jubilee Line but I do have to check out the transfer to Liverpool Street via the double change of the Waterloo and City and then Central lines.

I am really not sure we'll still be in the UK when she turns 11 but the whole Kent ethos of spending almost a decade worrying about the 11+ and forgetting all about regular learning but only to pass this test, in subjects which are not taught, seems utter madness. I don't think I want that for my daughter and even though I am a supporter of educating the elite separately, I do not think the whole of primary education should be sacrificed for that one item. I think it should be easy enough to teach a child how to pass some reasoning test in a short time if that is what is required. I would certainly like some of the commute times from Kent though.

I'm not sure I understand the Liverpool St vs Waterloo issue, the waterloo & city line goes into bank and then its a 5 minute walk from bank to liverpool st. the jubilee line runs directly from waterloo into carnary wharf. Depending on your choice of location trains run every 10 mins from woking and 15 minutes from surbiton. These are direct fast trains and open up a fair part of surrey to you.

It sounds like you are only considering the state school route, but perhaps you could consider private schooling as an alternative, outside of london the pressure to enrol at a certain point in time is less. SW London / Surrey is filled with good private schools

don't know how relevant this is but if you are considering a commute starting with driving to the station it's probably worth checking out the availability and cost of car parking at the station - i know there are waiting lists at some for season ticket spaces.

also check out residency requirements - some schools require you to still be at the address when the child starts school which could add 6 months to your rental agreement.

and another thought - what will your child's mother be doing during the day - if she's not planning on working then you ought to take into account where she would be happy living, particularly given she's not from the UK and presumably has a limited social network here at the moment.

Thanks again for your comments.

The transfer to the Jubilee and straight into Canary Wharf is fine and I have no problem with that. However, I find Bank station a nightmare when busy and I have been through it enough transferring from Northern line to DLR and Central line and it is hellish in winter and almost unbearable in summer. There are simply far too many people trying to traverse between one line and another. My worry is that there are multiple changes to get to Liverpool Street, namely at Waterloo and then again at Bank. I have also know the Waterloo and City line to be out of commission for weeks if not months. Then there is the occasional problem that it closes well before 10pm each day. I do need to do a trial run though.

I do not consider driving any great distance to get a train a viable solution. The train journey is long enough without adding more time. I suppose buying another old car for the journey to the station and back is one solution but hardly a good one. I cannot expect public transport as I would in central London but I am hopeful that we could get a house within 10 minutes or so walk from the station in due course.

I take the points on the address but having reviewed documents from many a council this week, the fall down would be were we to simply rent another property to fit the geographical requirements. If that happens to be your only or even main home, then you do not fall foul of rules if you have to move before the start of term. The crux is that Surrey for one requires you to put your Council Tax reference number on your application. If you have not requested a second home reduction, I think you should be ok. As it would be our only home, we would not fall foul of any rule which I am currently aware of.

I do worry about my partner's adjustment to life in the UK on a permanent basis but the South West of London is the area which holds the greatest opportunities. As far as I can, with photos, street views from Google Maps etc., she feels fine and she prefers a more laid back village life to the hustle and bustle of central London. I think Farnham might well prove to be a town of ideal proportions and certainly were the commute not the farthest I am considering, I would have no qualms in putting it to the top of my list.

I hope to have fully investigated perhaps a dozen or more locations and have multiple locations within each and my own database of properties available or which have been available as back ups to each other and then when my family comes over, we can go drive around and see which we really like, knowing that the nitty gritty homework has all been done.

Hi
can you please suggest best primary school in well educated town/village within 1 hours train travel from London. Looking for a child friendly town/village with safe areas
house rent budget 1400 per month

@MeghanaP Hi Meghana, it would be better if you started your own thread, this one is four years old.

London is huge, it would help if you could narrow down the location you want a bit, otherwise people will be telling you about perfect villages and schools twenty miles from where you want to live.