Religious teaching in schools

[DollySparkles]

Hi,

Could someone please clarify for me what the rules are regarding religious education in primary schools?

We are non Christian, and I was hoping that religious references at my five year old daughters schools would be rounded and non directional. However, my five year old is arriving home now upset because 'she wants to be Christian because you are not good if you are not Christian and don't have Jesus for your heart'.

There is also a steady stream of information regarding Jesus and the Bible which it seems is being taught (or at the very least interpreted by my daughter) as factual information.

I am stuck between not wanting to undermine the authority of the teacher and not wanting my daughter to not end up brainwashed and confused and believing she is 'not good' if she isn't Christian.

I have no objection at all to Christianity being taught as a religion amongst many or as something some people believe, but this is making me feel very uncomfortable, and more importantly confusing my little one who now thinks one is 'not good' if not Christian.

There was a conversation about this recently. It is highly likely that the school is teaching Christianity as it is a legal requirement that there be an act of daily worship of a broadly Christian nature. You can request that your dd be removed from this if it bothers you / her. Maybe you could ask the teacher what is being taught and how (i.e. is it presented as true or something that some people believe).

Here is the petition that came up in the other thread if you would like to encourage the government to change the law to remove this requirement: petitions.number10.gov.uk/secularschools/

3 things spring to mind after reading your post:
1 Is it a church school/ As they have to be more religious than non church schools.
2 If you are really unhappy then talk to the teacher let her know you are a non Christian? Let her know what your daughter said not in a bad way but a polite way.

1. You talk about brain washing and yet is that not what you ae doing? am not trying to be nasty but couldnt you explain to your daughter in a simple way about Christianity and tell her a bit about what Christians belive in but say that tht is notwhat you belive and that it is ok to not be a Christian and then highlight some other religions?

HTH

Is is a church school? My son went to a community infants where he was told 'God created light' as part of his light and dark science topic. There were even big posters around to this effect.

RE is on the curriculum but there is a line between teaching about religion in a neutral way ....e.g. 'christians believe...' and as fact 'Jesus died for you'. The kids at my son's school had the fear of God put up them one Easter as they were told they were selfish if they enjoyed the Easter holidays and their chocolate as it was when Jesus died. Nice.

Now, it is very difficult to raise this as teachers take huge offence and if it is being taught like this, it is improper and they are not likely to admit it. However, I think even if it just your child getting confused about the way things are being taught, this means the teaching is not as clear and neutral as it could be.

I ended up moving school as the infant school fed in to a CE junior school and I knew it would get worse.

HOWEVER, if the school is a faith school, things are alot trickier....then you get what you paid for and can't complain in my book

Sorry, I should say I would distinguish teaching in the classroom from the 'daily act of worship' required by the Education Act and usually undertaken in assembly. Schools generally pay lip service to the latter and there's not much you can do about it. If it's in the classroom, you have every right to discuss whether it is being taught as opinion or fact

have a look here

Whether it is a church school or not, their RE teaching has to incorporate other faiths, but be broadly about Christianity.

I wouldn't be too happy if my ds came home spouting this - I am firmly a 'some people believe' kind of primary teacher. But I would simply make sure my ds knew this.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

In repsonse to a few of the questions and points;

It is not faith or church school.

I put that we are non Christian on the form when we started the school.

This is occurring in the classroom, not assembly.

@ thecloudhopper

"You talk about brain washing and yet is that not what you ae doing? am not trying to be nasty but couldnt you explain to your daughter in a simple way about Christianity and tell her a bit about what Christians belive in but say that tht is notwhat you belive and that it is ok to not be a Christian and then highlight some other religions"?

No I'm not brainwashing her at all. I have explained clearly that lots of lovely people are Christian, and that it is just one of many religions etc. My issue is that the school are delivering Christian dogma as fact and that she seems to have been told that one is 'not good' if one is not Christian. I would actually think this approach was as flawed if they had told her the same for my own religious beliefs. I do not like the idea of any religious ideas being promote as factual truths or as a moral imperative - my attitude is by all means teach what different religions believe, but don't assign goodness or badness to any religion or promote one religions ideas as solid fact (incidentally some of their 'facts' were ludicrously ill informed).

I really didn't like seeing her worried and upset that she 'isn't good' because we 'don't do Jesus things'.

Speaking as a Christian who is actively involved in leading assemblies (in a church school), I'd be absolutely horrified if a child was going home thinking they were "bad" because they weren't Christian.

The rule of thumb I've been given by the Head is that it is fine for me to talk about "what Christians believe" and it is also OK for me to explain what I believe and why. Because one of the reasons I am invited into school is so that the children can meet a "real" Christian. Just as they also meet real Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc.

I am quite clear that it would be very much not OK for me to suggest that the children should believe the same as me, or are somehow deficient if they don't.

It sounds to me as if there is an actively Christian member of staff in your school who is going a bit too far. But do also bear in mind that it might also be a child in her class who comes from a very Christian home and is telling all their friends what they "should" do. Five year olds can be pretty black and white about these things!

I am having the same issue with my daughter at a non-faith school school. The children are predominately Christian and muslim we are only one of one or two non religious family in the year of 60 children. I have met with the RE co-ordinator and discussed my concerns: My daughter talks about God and Jesus frequently, she says that easter is a sad time as jesus died.
She also shows us how to pray 'like a muslim'. I do not mind this as much as it is learning about religions rather than it being taught as fact.
The RE co-ordinator said that evolution is not on the national curriculum and that they do not teach aetheism until later on (my daughter is in year one). i am concerned that beliefs (that are ot facts) are taught in scholl whne science (evolution) is not. To be honest I think that my daughters time can be more usefully spent learning about maths, literacy, science,history or any factual lessons and not about God, Jesus and the bible. I also do not want her to see her family as 'deviant' as we do not believe on a 'God'
We deal with it by telling her that we do not believe in God and that the bible is just a story that some people believe in. We tell her that peopleused tobelieve in the bible and God before they knoew and understand a lot of the things we know about now.
I feel that if you choose a non-faith school you should not have to deal with these issues.

I started a similar thread yesterdya, about my dd being concerned about going to a different place when she dies because I am christened and she is not. I too think the issue is a religious member of staff going a bit too far, and am going to speak to the head about it later this week. She is 5 ffs, and I am less than impressed at the 'christianity is good' angle being spouted at her non church school

We have 'faith' schools for this sort of 'brainwashing' (being fascetious btw.... omg I cannot spell that word). Unfortunately some people of 'faith' including teachers are aware of the malability of young minds and take the 'catch them young' approach!!
No- I am not an anti religious bigot i have a good friend who is ordained.... of course we agree to disagree on many things but respect and do not force our views on each other. She keeps her 'work' within the church and does not 'use' it in other contexts of her life.

I have had similar issues at school over RE lessons. IMO many children in Infant School are too young to understand the "some people believe" argument, my dd came home saying she believed in heaven and Jesus - what nonsense, a child of 5 is not equipped to make these decisions - they have no life experience, no ability to critically look at the alternatives - it's immoral tobrainwash children thsi way. At our school, during assembly, the children were invited to put their hands together and pray - if they wished. What 5 year old is going to say - excuse me I don't wish - I wish to go against your god, not many I bet! Finally after one parent got a bit annoyed they offered the alternative - "if you don't wish to pray just stand quietly" - at last the voice of reason! We cheered!
I believe we should leave RE till Junior School - when they are more able to reason these things out for themselves and more able to understand the idea that a belief is not a fact.

HMGRockstar
I agree but think that if they are teaching RE in Junior school then they should also be teaching evolution but I have been told that RE is part of the national curriculum but evolution is not. When I asked why i was told (by the RE co-ordinator) that it was too complex. I asked my (then 4 years and sitting next to us) daughter if she understood where we came from and she said - 'yes we used to be those hairy people in the museum'. My point is it is not difficult and should be taught from reception if not before.

We have gone over the theory of evolution with our kids. The Bible is such an intriguing book but followers rarely question it openly - the more the kids learn at school about Christianity, the more we explore the alternative view point and it's a fasinating intellectual journey and a good place to encourage your child to examine common misconceptions, to teach them to think for themselves.
But back to your situation - I found after Year 1 they were much more able to detach themselves from what the teacher said and realise she wasn't always right - good place to be as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks HMGRS
We have been looking for books on evolution suitable for a 6 -8 year old any ideas?
An additional concern is that My daughter's grandpa (my Dad) died last year. She went to the funeral and dealt with it appropriately. Now she is asking about heaven etc and this is quite difficult. Do you belive in God In can deal with. She asked me if there was a heaven the other day and I said no. She was OK with that. She cries appropriately and says that she wishes we could all be on this earth for ever. I think she has a well adjusted view to life, death, the universe etc and don't want it tainted by all this religious shit!!

Well Op you didn't say that in your post but I would speak to the teacher I know the teacher I work with does not see the admitions forms so perhaps teacher hasnot seen it? Go to her and say what your child has said etc

We had an almost identical experience regarding heaven and dead relatives. We were honest about it and just said we didn't believe heaven exists, but some people do. We explained that no one really knows what happens after you die, it's all just guessing.

My dd decided she believed in God in Yr1, as a result of RE teaching - the phase only lasted a few months - thankfully but we were careful not to try and convince her that her ideas were misguided - she figured it out for herself. Similar thing happened one of her classmates too and they soon got over it too - so if that happens don't panic!

The organised religions are very good at getting their views across and influencing policy, us non believers are not quite so well organised, so are views are in danger of not being heard, so as a consequence of the Christian dominance of the Curriculum, I joined the Humanitarian Society. They campaign and lobby on behalf of us non believers on school issues among others. Have a look at their website - we need someone to represent our views too and they need money to keep going.

Finally just wait till the whole Angel thing kicks in...for little girls that is just about as appealling as a Disney Princess, but that too will pass in time.

Someone's asked for book recommendations for children from non-religious backgrounds.

I have found the following 2 really excellent:

The story of everything by Neal Layton (www.amazon.co.uk/Story-Everything-Neal-Layton/dp/0340881712/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1 270032068&sr=8-1) and Maybe Right Maybe Wrong, a guide for young thinkers by Dan Barker (www.amazon.co.uk/Maybe-Right-Wrong-Dan-Barker/dp/0879757310/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1 270032126&sr=1-1).

I would love other suggestions. I find it quite tiresome the way people justify being a Christian because they want their children to have values, as if nonreligious people couldn't possibly be good people! (or being a Christian made you a good person!).

I am a christian but we chose to send our dd to a community school.
the reason for this was because we wanted her to be with children who had a mixture of beliefs where she would taught about all religions. we see it very much as our job to teach her about our faith and what that means .I have also found c of e schools to teach christianity in a way that we would not teach it.
her school I have found are very respectful of all faiths and teach all equally. I agree that views of humanitarians should also be taught.if they are old anough to be taught christians believe God made the world then they are old enough to be taught simple evolution.

Part of job is to go into schools and teach what christians believe but it is most certainly not anything like what you daughter is coming home saying.
its more it is easter this is what christians believe easter is.I went into a community school to do a christmas assembly and the children are encouraged to think about what they have heard after for a minute or so of quiet but the word pray is not used.I thought this was a good way of approaching a tricky area.
It does sound like you have a member of staff teaching in not the right way regarding faith to be honest.

My ds goes to a catholic school and thank goodness he does after Reading some of this! He is in reception, but they have already learnt about different religions but obviously a lot of the teaching is about the catholic faith too. His view on Easter is it's a happy time, Jesus comes back to life he tells me. There is no confusion, everything is positive and the message is clear unlike what I have read the schools are telling the children on some of these posts.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and helpful suggestions. For the record I am religious, just not Christian.

My interest however is essentially the same as if I were not religious in that I find the morally directional nature and presentation as fact troubling, not simply the content. She is parrotting the joys of Jesus exactly the same as she is parrotting this weeks fascinating information on Egypt, dinosaurs and her two times table - Jesus' purported history and teachings has been processed as factual. Sigh

Also apprently we 'get Easter eggs because Jesus loved us' - which sounds suspiciously like a bribe to me, (as well as being historically inaccurate).