Bottom third of class in year one, bottom third through primary?

[Cortina]

Just wondering if your DC was in one of the bottom two groups in year one if this was the case going forward?

Yes/no?

so far, yes. dd is now in yr 2 and still in bottom groups. I expect it still to be the same in yr 3 as well, as her teacher says she's still a way behind average and won't catch up by the end of the year. She's a summer birthday and had to start school before she was ready - she's only been ready to learn, really, this year.

Some children take time to learn the basics, reading, writing, how numbers work, and then if they are interested in the world and have supportive parents they can fly. My cousin's children were in the bottom sets throughout all of their infant/ most of junior school and then suddenly rose to the occasion and took off towards the end of their time there and are doing very well in secondary.

No.

Ds1 was in the lower groups for some subjects in Yr1. His weakest area was writing and he spent a lot of Yr1 on the P-scales (or whatever the name is now - ie not yet at a Level 1 standard). This had a knock-on effect for other subjects.

He's in Yr5 now and AFAIK is in the higher groups for everything.

Hi,

Yes and NO,

My DD was in the bottom 20% for yrs R, 1 & 2 - due to having an August birthday and being shy. In yr 3 she went to top 10% - she just suddenly caught up with the older children. I would say, however that she is the only one who 'got off' the bottom table - the rest stayed there until they got to yrs 4 & 5 where they don't have the 'table system'.

HTH - it takes a long time for summer borns to catch up.

That's encouraging squashpie, maybe dd will be the same - she's just started to really 'get' reading in the last month. Maths she struggles with, dh is trying to teach her some but she's a bit reluctant. She is interested in other stuff, especially to do with geography - they're doing about Africa at her school atm - and dh was telling her about the planets the other day!

No, not at all. There is often an awful lot of movement. In Yr 1 any dsyslexia etc is highly unlikely to be undiagnosed, with dx and help there can be massive change by Yr 6. Plus some children just 'get it' and then shoot off.

Not for us dd was bottom third in reception and year 1. Got 1a's in year two then moved onto Junior school where they had a different way of teaching.She got three 5's in year six and was considered in the top two of her year.
She is now sixteen and tipped to go to Cambridge after A2's next year

That's really heartening. DS on bottom table - though top for reading - and he really wants to move up with his friends. He's very shy and so it was a huge thing when he actually asked his teacher what he needed to do to move up a table. She said he had to 'prove himself'. He doesn't know what that means and nor do I really. She told me she's surprised that the children know how the tables are ranked and they aren't meant to - yeah, right.

I'm interested in all this table talk. How did you find out what table your dcs were on? All I know is that ds has sat on the same table the entire year. He has progressed as I know he has different reading books to others on his table but not really sure what that means. If there is only a finite number of spaces on a particular ability table how do children actually move?

I don't think my son was in the bottom group for literacy but he definitely wasn't in the top group. He is now in top groups for all subjects.

Always astonished that there are teachers naive enough to think that kids don't know what groups they are in!

Molly- I always knew because my children told me! Perhaps your son's school is one of the rare and excellent ones that doesn't operate in-class streaming?

Of course the children know how the tables are ranked, no matter what colour/shape/animal the school gives them! My DDs could probably tell me where every single child in their year sits. Back to the OP, no I dont think children are typecast IYKWIM, children peak and plateau at different rates and in different years.

Molly - he may be sitting at teh same table but be grouped for reading etc. dd sits at a table with a mixture of P1, P3 and P4 kids (it is a composite) but when it comes to things like reading, maths etc they go into their ability groups.

Well, I'm hoping there'll some movement . given that my yr 1 child is in the bottom groups for everything. the only way is up.

My nearly 10 year old has skipped between middle, top and bottom groups throughout her school career. Every year there's a dramatic variation. She goes up and down the groups like a yoyo. I like to think she's got hidden depths that SATS etc can't measure.

My Y2 tables are all mixed ability groups

I hope not! Writing a child off at 5/6 as being destined for a lifetime at the bottom seems harsh!
DS (yr 2) has always been in the bottom groups yet this Yr 2 have certainly started to see a huge progression in everything. He will get level 2's for his SATs due to the improvement since Sept.Some may scoff at not getting 3's but a summer born who left Yr1 on low level 1 it is a huge progression. In the words of his teacher at parents eve this week "if he carries on at this pace then he will catch up / overtake his peers".
Although I worry about the effect of always being at the lower tables interms of being labelled as slower/behind I then remind myself that he gets more assistance than being on a higher table.
Being able to read/write etc at an earlier age than others is no sure indicator of later brilliance. The teacher herself said that SATs at 6/7 are way too early as children still developing. She also added that she had children in Yr 2 who she thought were fantastic that turned out to be average and vice versa.

No way.

When DD was in Yr2 she was a year behind according to her teacher. Now in Yr 4 and in top ability sets and just got told at parent's even she could pass 11+ if we put her in for it.

Hmm. DS was top of the class in Y1, and still is in Y4. That suggests that it works the same way at the bottom end.

Okay, stripeynick-nacks, maybe I'm wrong.

MollyO, if a child needs to move up a group in Literacy or Numeracy and there is no room in the next group I move a table so there is! My classroom is reorganised on a regular basis as children move from group to group, ( although much of our work is mixed ability so they can sit where they like!) The children have their "home" seat where they start off the day and move around the class through the day depending on where they or I would like them to sit. ( as for example I currently have 8 in my top group for maths and 6 in my second group, but 6 in my top group for literacy and 8 in my second so they swap tables depending on the subject we are covering!)

DS was in not the bottom group, but certainly the bottom third, for literacy, specifically writing, right through until year 3. Top group for Maths, good reader, but OMG the writing. Anyway, he is now comfortably in the middle for writing (meeting expectations hurrah!!).

To add to my earlier post now that the little loves are in bed, Primarymum - my DD2's teacher has recently "created" a fifth group for literacy as the previous most able group apparently were holding this fifth lot back; fair play to her, and in my DD1's class there are about eight children in the top group and only four or five in the other three, so really it proves that a group must be as big or as small as the ability of the children sees fit.

The ability groups do not work like that in dd's class. We recently got told that despite dd's increased ability in numeracy (she's been finding numeracy really easy for at least a term now) - the teacher said she'd been thinking about it for a quite a while but she couldn't be moved up because it didn't suit the seating arrangements in the class ...she has agreed to change the tables around after Easter and we will be on her case big time if it doesn't happen. And here was me trying not to be pushy about ability tables and trying to let the teacher sort her class out - I feel she has let my dd down, she clearly had low expectations for my dd progress.

I've never asked what table ds is on and not been pffered that info either. I do know that if he sat any closer to the teacher he'd be sitting on her lap . I figure from that he must be one of the least able ones!

This comment struck me:
it proves that a group must be as big or as small as the ability of the children sees fit.

In our school there is a set number at each ability table.

Problem teacher is facing is that NO parent wants there child moved down, campaigns to stop it happening usually, so no room for those that make the grade to be moved up.

Also I've noticed a difference in how the children work at the tables - top group, calm atmosphere, heads down, quite collaboration etc. Bottom half? No comparison, lively shouts and lively behaviour.

Interesting. Seems to level out in the end?