State/ Private confusion - living in WImbledon

[MommyG]

I've initiated threads before asking about certain independent school for my two DSs. For the last 3 years I was abroad, and we now want to come back to UK. (hopefully for good)

But I'm sooooooo confused about their schools .. do I really want to spend so much money on private education for primary schooling, when there are good state schools around me?

My house is in the catchment of Dundonald school, which has outstanding Ofsted reports. I dont know if my kids will get in there, as they will need to go into Yr 4 and Yr 1 respectively.. but if I do get in, do you think I should go for that, or should I go for any private school. (I have finally found one that has places)

Private school will come upto almost £2000 a month, and with both me and my husband working, we defn can make it, but do you think it is worth that much though.. Like any other parent I want the best for my children.

But I dont want to spend just for the sake of saying its private. Is there a true value add in going private. If it is sports and other extra curricular-s that is lacking in state schools, cant I just enrol them for that privately? Or is it the crowd of parents/children that is the problem here? How do you think that will affect in primary days?

My upbringing has been outside UK, so I really dont know the standard or rather or the differences btw private/state, and am not able to make a decision.

So sorry for this long post, and am really sorry if I have offended anyone in anyway, I'm just trying to arrive at a sensible conclusion here..

My children went to state primaries until Year 6. My view was that the basics are well-taught in state primaries in my area outside London. Both of them have then got into selective secondaries.

The caveat comes (in some schools) with things like French or another language, and sport. But this varies from school to school. And in an area like yours you'd have plenty of opportunities to supplement.

I just couldn't see the benefit of spending the money until Y5. I suppose that would only be a year away for your eldest, though.

If you can get into Dundonald, don't go private. It's fab.

We're very lucky in Merton to have fabulous state primaries - Dundonald, Wimbledon Park and Pelham to name but three.

Oh.. is it?? I will defn try then. But chances are slim I think considering that they are looking for places into Yr 4 and Yr 1. Do you think so? But our house is extremely close to the school.. 0.14 miles. Do you think there is a chance?

How does it work.. will they offer place only if there is a vacancy, or is it compulsory that I get in as it is the closest school for me?

you will find most parents in SW London happily send their children to state primaries as they are v well thought of and you get the added benefit of a lovely community feeling (e.g. all the children on our street go to the same school).

Most sport in London is run by clubs anyway (like football, gymnastics, cricket, rugby) and you'll find as they get older within the school that they will have their own football/netball etc. teams.

However, you do need to think about where you want them to go after primary school. Most independent schools (if you wish to send them there afterwards) will have some sort of admission test which you need to bear in mind. You may need some help with exam technique if you want them to write those tests.

The biggest difference, imo, is the class size. In state school juniors (so yr 3 onwards) there is no cap on class size so theoretically your child could be in a class of 33 (in infants, reception to yr2, the class size is limited to 30). A lot of the independent schools will only have classes of 18-20 pupils.

Sorry MommyG I don't know how it works, and as my DS are 18 and 15, applications were a long time ago!

Why not contact the schools directly and ask them? They all have websites.

Good luck!

Only the school can tell you if there is a chance. I would also try more than one school, and be prepared to have your kids in two different schools while waiting for a place in the preferred school to come up.

You will have no trouble finding extracurricular activities such as French, Spanish, and sports, like tennis, football, martial arts etc if you think your chosen school does not offer enough.

If you are religious, you might also be able to get a place at a good Church School, either Roman Catholic or Anglican if you are a protestant. But this requires an uptodate baptism certificate for your children, and quite possibly also a letter from your current parish priest.

Thanks all for your replies.
One point that foxinsocks mentioned is a bit worrying - that children would have already formed their own groups for football etc. My older son esp is a bit on the quieter side and takes time to socialise! So, hope he doesnt feel left out too much.. In private schools it is easier to manage as teachers work very closely in that respect.

But Dundonald does seem to be a very good option indeed and I really kick myself as to why I didnt think of state schools earlier.

Having said that, I called up the school and Merton council. The schools for both year groups are closed for now. But we do have an advantage that we live

I suppose it depends whether you want you children to mix with 93% of the population or 7%................!!

Seriously - private schools tend to have more extra curricular activities because they have lots of your money to fund them with. State schools haven't generally got the resources to do as much - but you will, because you aren't paying school fees! IYSWIM.

But even in private schools most extra curricular are paid anyway - except maybe swimmimg...

And I didnt know the gap was 93% and 7%. Wherever I'm enquiring, both private and state, they are all oversubscribed and happy

If you are able to get one child into Dundonald and not the other, it would be worth accepting the place. Having a sibling at the school bumps the other child up the waiting list for when a place does come up.

My children go to a primary school near Dundonald (with the same size and small catchment area) and I know a few people who've got places after moving into the area by getting an older child in first. Quite a few children around here move to prep schools at 7, move house etc so it's easier to get an older child in.

Merrymonsters, what do you mean by moving to prep school? Do you mean move to an independent school? Why is that?

Prep schools tend to be 7-13 (boys) and public school 13+. (girls different and move to senior at 11) Many kids in the Wimbledon area go to state primary and then move to prep at 7-8. I think the view is at this very young age it is much the same between a pre-prep and a good state primary, but you start to notice a difference in academics/facilities which count if you want to keep pace and stand a chance of getting into King's and the like at 13. It is nothing to do with wanting to be with a right kind of person/child, just what is perceived (by people who choose private) as superior facilities, teaching etc.

what is the private school? they vary in quality and atmosphere just as much as the state primaries, of course!

ohh ok.. Thanks Vanitypear ! So my older son is actually ready for a prep school, since he will be 8 in Sept, isnt it.

Dundonald is only until 11. (i.e Year 6) So what will he do after that, if senior school is only from 13?

Are there schools that will admit only Yr7 and Yr8?

Yes, I mean to independent schools. I think people do it because they're worried about the move to secondary school. As Vanitypear said, some people use the state primaries as a kind of pre-prep, especially at Bishop Gilpin school. We're not going private ourselves so I don't know about those transitions.

There are state secondary schools from 11 and also grammar schools in Kingston and Sutton.

I am really quite confused. Why are there so many levels of schools - I studied in the same school from Reception to A levels ! So now you know why I find all this so confusing But here are a few qns.. pls clarify

• All state Senior schools start from 11+ (for boys & girls)
• But independent senior schools for boys starts only from 13+, and for girls 11+.
• So children usually go to prep schools at 7 so that they are prepared better to face the entrance tests at both 11+ and 13+, is that correct?
• And these prep schools are all private?
• Do grammar schools accept at 11+ and 13+? Can a student try on both these years?

Also, what do you think is better?

• state school PLUS extra tutoring for these entrance exams

OR

• prep school?

Maybe you will say prep school + extra tutoring, which I'm pretty certain most parents will do..

Kings College School has a Junior Dept. & they take boys from 7.

Regarding the state / independent split in England overall the 7% / 93% is roughly accurate but more children / young people are educated in the independent sector in London and at sixth form level (age 16 - 18).

One thing you could do to up your chances of a place at the state primary, try to be resident in your Wimbledon home before the end of the summer term so you can register your children then(& hopefully get offered a place), just in case anyone with a higher priority moves into the area over the summer holidays.

My son is too late for KCS Junior - he's in Yr3 now.
Yes, we plan to do that - move in maybe 2 days before last term ends, and register them.

But I'm all worried now once again with this prep discussion.

Am I going in the opposite direction to how the world goes? DS1 has been going private until Yr3, and now I'm considering state.. when everybody does the reverse.
For DS2, state pre-prep seems sensible, as he will be going to Yr 1.

If you are practising Christians you could try Bishop Gilpin C of E Primary in Lake Road, many of my friends went there decades ago & were v happy I've just checked the school on Ofsted, it still has an outstanding rating. It takes 50:50 on nearness / church attendance.

No I dont stand a chance there.. neither are we CofE nor are we in the UK currently !
And I dont think we are that near the school too, even after we move there..

Regarding state / independent trends, think it very much depends where you live & the quality of the schools (as well as whether you can afford to pay the fees). My son went to state primary from 4-7 and then independent. If he had stayed in the state sector at our nearest state secondary he would have been one of a cohort that achieved approx. 36% A - C at GCSE whereas his cohort at a not madly selective independent (ex grammar)achieved 99% A - Cs (most As / Bs). If you move to Wimbledon and your children are quite academic remember there are good grammars in Kingston (Tiffins) and in Sutton.

DS1 I dont think is grammar school material, esp with so much competition. So I think he will most probably go to some independent school in later stages.
So if that is the thinking, do you think it is better to go to a prep school now itself, (in your opinion?)

Well that's what we did with DS as the only boys grammar in our area is one of the top schools in the country, has no catchment (takes from wide area in London / Kent)and has about 10 boys applying for each place. DS is summer born, bright but also liked playing (out on skates / bike / having fun etc.) not a child for Kumon maths, tutor.

He was not the only one of his peers to orchestrate a fail / rejection from other schools at 11 as they were so happy where they were ('don't worry I won't be failing my school senior entrance exam'!!)and telling the Heads of other schools they wanted to stay where they were but had just taken the test / attended interview to please their parents!!

Anyway, hopefully they will all be off to uni soon after eleven happy years together & there's no option to stay at school for that.

Yes, I'm sure priority for them would be to stay together and not bother getting into (ughh..oh) grammar schools ! But I dont think in our area there are any boys independent schools starting from 7 to all the way upto GCSCs.

Jeez.. this is so confusing!!! I want to make a decision and not regret it later on
Private = too much money (gosh.. cant they reduce it a little)
State = Dont have the guts to take a risk, esp since DS1 will be in Yr4.