50 per cent of school speak English as a second language, should I be worried?

[lucysullivan]

Heard today where dc will be going to primary school, it wasn't a school we had listed as a preference so didn't know much about it. Just had a look at its OFSTED report and 50 per cent of pupils speak English as a second language. The report says that this translates into pupils having basic written and language skills. Overall the school has a satisfactory rating.

I feel gutted. On the one hand I keep telling myself that 4 and 5 year olds who don't yet speak English should be able to pick it up quickly when they start school so it shouldn't really be a problem. But on the other hand I have images of ds in the playground with no-one to speak to because of the language barriers. How will he be able to meet his full potential if he is in a classroom where 50 per cent of pupils will need extra help and attention from the teacher because they don't speak the language?

Just hoping I am worrying unnecessarily...

it is interesting to see how this school has english termed as a second language. just had a look at ds's school's ofsted report and it says

"More than four fifths of pupils come from a variety of minority ethnic backgrounds.. .. two thirds of pupils speak an additional language to English."

which is a pretty accurate reflection. the children all speak english.

Could it actruallt be an oppurtunity for your DC to pick up a second language at a yound age? I went to a French primary school at 4, teacher spoke little English and I was fluent within a term. Didn't suffer academically.

A school with a high propostion of ESL will also have lots of extra support in the classroom which IME is a good thing for the whole class.

It's only a problem if lots of children arrive with NO English and there isn't enough ESL support (and if the school has a satisfactory rating overall this isn't likely). Otherwise it's an opportunity for your child to embrace the wonderful multicultural world we live in. Your attitude will be really important as to which approach your child will take - most kids take others as they find them until they are taught prejudice.

Two thirds of the children in my dc's school are bilingual, including my dc. In belgium this is considered a Good Thing. My children come home singing in spanish and saying words in all sorts of languages. The monolingual belgian children are constantly being encouraged by their parents to learn another language and get sent to languages classes in the summer.

Only in England could exposure to children speaking other languages be considered in a negative light.

Please don't worry about it. Children are incredibly versatile and they will all pick up english fast if they haven't already done so. If it's a good school the teachers will be able to cope with all the needs of the pupils.

Agree that it is only a problem if none of these children speak any English.

My children are bilingual, but you would never know unless they told you.

I agree with belgo.

Ceriously, it shouldn't be a problem.

50% of the kids speak English as a second language, but this doesn't mean they don't speak English!!! They almost all probably start school already speaking English from nursery etc.

My friend teaches in a school which has a similar profile. As others say, it isn't automatically a problem so long as the children can speak English sufficiently well as a second language.

However, in her particular school it is a problem as most of the children come with little or no English, having either not been to nursery, or having spent all their early years with mother-tongue peers.
It means that in the first few years the children are having to simultaneously learn to read/write AND in another language, which is very hard. It also depends whether the parents speak English, and support e.g. reading in English at home. Again, in my friend's school there are many who don't.

Perhaps the clue is in the statement "The report says that this translates into pupils having basic written and language skills." Sounds as if many are learning English for the first time.

Whippet, that's what I'm worried about. Knowing the profile of the area I think many of the children will start school with little if any English spoken at all. There is a high volume of children (according to OFSTED) who arrive at the school mid-term speaking no English and many who fail to attend school on a regular basis.

As much as I value cultural diversity I do not want to do so at the expense of my ds education. I'm not sure how appropriate it is for a 4.5 year old to be trying to learn up to 13 other languages at primary school.

I would be worried.

There are a couple of children in dd's class who arrived at school with no English. They quickly picked it up. But - if 15 of the 30 children were speaking to each other in other languages, then surely it must be a bit chaotic.

I would also be concerned about the pool of friends.

gramercy, that's one of the things I'm worried about. DS is quite shy anyway so it will be even more difficult for him to make friends if half the school population do not speak English.

Only thing I can do is put his name down on waiting lists for other schools. Not quite sure how he's ended up at this school - it's quite far out and there are several other schools more local to us.

I was speaking to someone who lives London at the weekend, and their ds failed to get a place at any of their chosen schools.

What she decided to do was to sit it out. She didn't send him in Reception at all and lo and behold, three places became available for year 1 at a decent school.

She said that people were stressing left right and centre, finding God, digging in their pockets for private schools etc etc but by just doing nothing (and having nerves of steel!) her ds ended up ok.

Could you ring up and make an appointment to see the Head and discuss your concerns? If you have never been to the school before, then it is wrong to pre-judge on the basis of an Ofsted report. People, and children, want different things from schools. I think Ofsted reports can quickly date if schools take action to address concerns too, so look for yourself.

The ESL issue is not necessarily a problem but investigate your concerns properly to see if they are based on reasonable foundations or just fear of an unknown school.

You might love it, or hate it (or be somewhere in between) but I think a meeting with the head is crucial to get a feel for the school and how they deal with parents' concerns.

It'll be fine, honestly. DS is mightily miffed that he's one of the only ones who doesn't speak another language. Some of the best readers in his Yr1 class are a couple of kids who started having next to no English. + the friendship issue playground games really won't be an issue unless it's very mono-cultural, so everyone speaking Sylheti or Turkish or something. Go and see the school and just see if you like the atmosphere and the way the teachers interact with the children that's more important imo.

You need to know more as the statistic is meaningless on its own - the Head can tell you. In my daughter's class she is one of only 3 who is not bilingual. The other children all speak a different language in the home (a variety of different languages, Chinese is the largest subgroup, with 4 children speaking it at home.) Some of them have one parent who is a native English speaker. All of them have picked up English in drop-ins, nurseries etc. In any case, they all speak English very well. One thing that may make a difference in the playground, at least, is whether the 50% of children share a common language that is not English. It is probably not the case and so English is the language they'll use to communicate to each other, which counts for a lot in terms of friendships. In class they'll have it all sorted with language support, where needed, I should think.

it is a problem
academically and socially surely?

No SuSylvester it's really not . In DS's school the multicultural side and number of languages is embraced as a hugely positive thing and from all I've seen it's a plus.

If there are 13 different languages spoken between 30 odd pupils then english will be the common language for all of them and they will pick it up fast. At least this is what has happened at my dc's school - flemish is the common language and has become the 'first' language for all the children.

and all the children are referred to as 'bilingual' rather then having a first or second language.

I think you need to find out more information, as others have said. It will depend on a number of factors such as whether there is a predominent 'second' language which means that 'sub-culture' groups spring up and are maintained (which could make social issues harder).

My friend's school has a very large intake of Eastern Europeans - speaking Hungarian/Slovakian. Many of the lunchtime (catering & playground supervision) staff are drawn from the same local community, and as a result they talk to (some of)the children in their native language, which, in turn, just reinforces the initial problem of weak English.

I think if I had an English child at an English school, I might be a bit if, every day they were being asked what they wanted for lunch in Slovakian...?

I can't see how it can have an effect other than enriching your dd's life.

And it's amazing how quickly non English speaking children learn English and inspiration to see the achievements they make.

The polish children in my dd's class have learned to read in English as quickly (if not quicker) than the native children despite starting school not speaking English at all.

It can be a problem if the 50% English as a second languagers are themselves monocultural as English does not then become the playground language.

And I would also be asking what the turnover of children in the school is like; if the children all arrive in reception, learn English and move up through the school, there is no fundamental problem. If they arrive at different stages through the school, stay awhile and move on, to be followed by another intake of non-English speakers it can be much more disruptive to your child's education as the basic English teaching has to be done over and over again.

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in DD1's class (outstanding ofsted) approx 1/3 of the children have english as an additional language, i am not sure what they would classify their "mother" tongue as. catholic school, loads of spanish/french/italian/portuguese

many (not all) of these children were behind with reading/writing etc in reception, but now by Y1 have pretty much caught up. there is a bit of italian/spanish chatter in the playground, but nothing to make you feel left out about! (in the summer we joke it is like being in Barcelona.... sunglasses and spanish...)

there are not enough children from one particular group to make the others feel left out though i have seen a few children chat to each other in italian. it is more the mums!

so, before you (understandably) freak out i think you need to find out more of the make up of the languages and to what extent english is a second language. all the children i know just speak their non english language at home and had attended nursery/playgroup/football club etc.