Junior school uniform: Sweatshirt/polo shirt or knitted jumper/shirt/tie? What's the Mumsnet view?

[RustyBear]

The head at the junior school I work at wants to change the uniform from the current seatshirt/polo shirt combination back to the original shirt and tie (clip-on/elastic available) with a knitted jumper/cardigan. The change would be phased in from September, so no-one would be forced to buy a lot of uniform at once.

All the parents at the parents' forum agreed it was a good idea, looked smarter, was more hardwearing etc (the current sweatshirts tend to fade quickly, though they are the best we've tried so far) but after a newsletter came out mentioning the proposed change there has been a certain amount of vocal opposition from some parents...

My mumsnet addiction is well known to the head, so I suggested starting a thread to see what the reaction was on here....

The jumpers aren't hand knitted - I'm not sure of the supplier but they look just like the ones my DD had at secondary school which I washed with everything else and bungee in the tumble drier - they lasted from Year 7 until GCSEs (DD didn't grow much) and were anything but delicate.

My dd's primary school is shirt and tie and I think it looks so smart. Other schools near us have the polo shirt/sweatshirt uniform and I think it looks sloppy.

The girls do have the option of wearing summer dresses in the summer term and the boys can wear shorts.

Our Summer uniform is dress for girls, shorts and short sleeve open neck shirt (worn out) for boys. Evberyone must wear school socks and black lace up shoes. Winter uniform is long sleeve shirt, tie and smart school jacket (not blazer until high school) for boys and long sleeve blouse with peter pan collar, pinafore and school jacket for girls. There is a v neck jumper they can wear under their jackets if it's particularly cold. They look really smart. Sorry but I think the whole polo/sweatshirt/trakky bottoms for little ones UK school uniform is horrible - I would prefer no uniform at all.

Ds1's uniform, when we lived abroad, was stone coloured open neck shirt and shorts/trousers with a reddish brown knitted jumper. It looked gorgeous and the materials were high quality and hard wearing. Back home he's in light blue polo, grey trousers and red sweatshirt - yuk!

Polo shirts/sweatshirts all the way!!

Can't be doing with dressing kids up or school where they should be comfortable and able to move freely (wore a tie all through school myself - hated it!).

Our school has both options though I suspect the shirt and tie option is a ruse to make it look posh. My kids have one shirt each and a tie for formal occasions.

Its white shirts at our school and with my kids, I would be ironing 15 shirts a week!! No WAY!

Question, on reading the thread --

Why do children have to be smart for school?
Is comfort not more important, especialy with the amount of active learning kids do these days?
I don't make my kids be "smart" when they are playing (and learning!) at home!

Before we know it, girls will be being banned from wearing trousers again, like when I was at school!

I was am a teacher and I think school uniforms are a real red herring, especially at Primary!

I find uniforms on kids a creepy and bizarre idea

why oh why would a school want to reintroduce ties to junior school children!!! do they weirdly think that will make the children learn better? that it will improve their Ofsted outcome? why why why???

dd was at school in the UK and had the polo shirt/sweatshirt combination which looked OK in the morning but all kids looked a bit dishevelled at the end of the day. it was def a better option than a tie/shirt!

we're now on the continent - she goes to school in her own clothes and looks fine and her learning and the learning of the other kids is on a par with the UK! they def dont misbehave more since its normal for them to wear their own clothes. it just seems like a good plan for her to be comfortable to learn which a shirt/tie will never be!

RustyBear - I agree - DS's jumper gets washed and tumble-dried and appears to be indestructible - I have never seen a single one with holes in elbows. They also seem to shrug off dirt and stains remarkably well.

(I still say polo-necks are a better option than shirts & ties to go under it, though )

Creepy and bizarre, Earthstar?

Not liking them is one thing, but creepy and bizarre is certainly an odd take on it.

Best compromise is the one our school has.

Sweatshirt/polo up to the end of Year 2 and then tie and shirt thereafter. It is easier for small DCs to get changed if they do not have shirt/tie which saves teachers a lot of time.

I hate sweatshirts. My boys wore them at their primary schools and they are ugly things. Ds1 now started at secondary and they have knitted jumpers - so so so much better. They seem hard wearing and certainly don't need any fancy washing cycles. They don't fade and they dry so much quicker.

The sweatshirts they had at their village first school were round neck. Ds2 has a big head and we had to go up several sizes just to fit the damn thing over his head. Slightly better at primary school as they were v-neck, but they washed into a weird colour.

At ds2's secondary school they obviously have a tie, but in the summer term they can have a school polo shirt with no tie and with the same knitted jumper - it looks fine.

I agree with weegiemum, comfort is more important than how they look. I am sure I read some research that shows children learn better when their clothes are comfortable.
Why would anyone want an 8 year old to wear a tie? More and more companies are going for casual smart dress codes as they also recognise the imoportance of comfort for a well motivated workforce. A lot of countries that beat us in league tables have no uniform and it doesn't do them any harm.
As a teacher I do not want to spend my lessons askng children to stop fiddling with ties when I should be inspiring them to learn!

Dd's school is doing the same. It has started to be phased in already and will be compulsory by the start of the Jan 11 term.

Personally I don't mind. I had to wear a shirt and tie all the way through school (apart from summer terms) and it never bothered me at all.

It seems to be coming more common now to go back to shirt and tie. The first school dd went to was pinafore and blouse and that switched to shirt and tie with skirts the term after she left. They had blazers through out.

Dd can't wait to wear the shirt and tie instead of a polo shirt. She is already getting lessons from Dh in how to do the tie and is annoyed with me that I won't let her wear it until September. She thinks it looks really smart and grown up.

A bit long but here are my thoughts...

Mine have had the following uniform so far (currently y4 and Y6)...

nursery... jogging bottoms or pinafore, polo, sweatshirt, black pumps (for indoors only) - this was great - practical, cheap, quick to wash, dry & iron (only sweatshirts were logo'd and weren't too expensive)

primary - either logo'd polo or shirt and tie (can be elastic or proper tie), logo'd sweatshirt, trousers (boys and girls), skirt or pinafore (girls), and summer term, options of shorts (boys) and gingham dresses (girls)

As the logo'd polo is a mustard yellow, it is not exactly easy to source a cheap version. A polo shirt costs around £8.50 and a sweatshirt is £9.50... whereas I can buy 2 non-iron shirts from M&S for around £7 (and usually buy on offer of 3 packs for 2)... if I was to buy them in tesco or asda, it would be cheaper still but I generally find the quality difference is noticeable after a term of washing...

As a working Mum, I usually kit my kids out with 6 shirts and 3 sweatshirts so that I can hopefully make it through the entire week without having to iron more than once... yes they sometimes end up wearing yesterday's lunch to school as I haven't washed a sweatshirt - but tbh I don't care any more about that one so long as its not a concert or photo day
That means the polo option would cost around 3 - 4 times as much for each child (and my 2 are about the same size despite a 2.5 year age gap so no hand-me-downs )

On that basis, after buying some polos when my eldest was in reception, I have settled on shirt and tie, and I think they generally look smarter and have had no issues about ties, other than the kids preferring real ties to elasticated ones as they are more grown up

If I was designing a uniform for a school, I would probably say

Foundation - joggers/pinafore, polo, sweatshirt or fleece
KS1 - trousers /skirt/pinafore, shirt, sweatshirt or fleece (no tie)
KS2 - trousers/skirt/pinafore/shirt & tie, sweatshirt or fleece
KS3/4 - trousers, shirt & tie, blazer or sweatshirt/fleece
6th Form - smart business attire with moderate jewellery etc allowed - get them used to dressing for a work environment (nb does not have to be a suit!)

And choose sensible colours (eg white polo or shirt) - no logo's on polos so parents can buy cheaper options

I have to say as the kids get older, uniform is a good idea as non uniform days are now fraught with "I don't know what to wear" and the "playground fashion parade" as my DD is 9, and all I seem to hear is so-and so is wearing XXX - for non-uniform day.

And tbh, its better that uniform gets spoilt with glue and paint than their new stuff (which of course always has to be worn as soon as its out of the shop)

uniform serves many purposes, including setting a tone for discipline and standards - if it is adopted and enforced sensibly, then it works

I love my dd's shirt/tie/cardigan! I always wore a tie at school, and it never felt uncomfortable. She wore a pinafore in P1 and P2, which means tie doesn't come untucked. Her uniform is from M+S, where I can get a pinafore for £5, a cardi for £4 and 5 shirts for £6, so not really a drain on finances and means spare kit is easy to have. Not sure how much sweatshirts cost, but I don't fancy having to buy at least 3 to deal with the dribbles of school dinner!

On PE days they wear polo shirts, with shorts under their pinafore, so easy to change themselves.

I do think the traditional uniform looks smarter, and my dd is very proud of hers

I expect it's the fear of having to iron the 'proper' shirts instead of tumbling and shaking!

Oooh! there are 3 pages! ooops!

I like the sweatshirt/polo shirt option.

Our school seem to have a supplier that provides sweashirts that wash well.

Like all things though, it depends on how they are washed. Our polos are white and some parents clearly don't separate their colours/darks/lights and whites or do ironing! Some also insist on sending their DCs in black trousers even though the uniform is grey . So, yes, it can look scruffy!

With all the outdoor learning that goes on at schools these days I think the formal uniform is a bit much.
I wouldn't do gardening in a shirt and tie.
DS is in year one and spends lots of his day outdoors, he wears a polo shirt, sweatshirt and combat type trousers.
Non of the colours have faded and nothing needs ironing.
DD is in year 5 and has formal uniform (skirt, shirt, tie) for certain events and when representing school and a casual uniform for more general use (sweatshirt, polo shirt and trousers).

I definitely agree with uniform though and feel the rules should be strict at secondary age, hate the fact at the local secondary they seem to be able to get away with black trainers instead of shoes and skinny jeans instead of trousers.

I detest ties - especially for girls, what on earth is the point.

We have polo shirts and sweatshirts with school logo on, which are quite expensive and can't be bought from supermarket. The sweatshirt material also fades in the wash.

I think my favoured option would be for the entire uniform to be available from supermarkets/M&S - so no school logos, and plain polo shirts or shirts with knit cardigans or jumpers.

But definitely NO TIE.

My old secondary had a hideous and formal uniform.

I looked on their website the other day and saw them wearing lovely navy fleeced coats and was dead impressed.

However, I read on and discovered that the children had just voted to go back to shirts and ties and V-necks.

So, perhaps people just want what they don't have!

We asked the school council about it this morning and they all love it - and the Year six children are really annoyed that even if we do change, it won't be till September.

I agree that it may well just be the prospect of change that excites them!